October 7th, 2010
08:24 AM ET

Your view: Talking with the Taliban

Afghan President Hamid Karzai on Thursday launched a council to help negotiate with the Taliban and find a way for peace. Karzai told the group, made up of about 68 Afghan clerics and elders, that it can help establish peace in Afghanistan.

The peace council meeting is one of several addressing the war in recent days. Political figures from Pakistan and Afghanistan were also sitting down this week in Kabul for a dialogue aimed at ending the nine-year-old Afghan war, in what one Afghan official called a "new phase" in building bridges and making peace with the Taliban.

But a Taliban spokesman told CNN that the group was not interested in peace talks. Zabiuhullah Mujahed, the spokesman, said they had no representative in the alleged negotiations in Kabul. Peace negotiations would not happen until the Afghan government met the Taliban's precondition to withdraw foreign forces in the country, the spokesman said.

What do you think? Is negotiating with the Taliban a good idea? Can a peace ever be met with the Taliban? Can lower level Taliban leaders be brought into the political and social fabric of Afghanistan?

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Filed under: Taliban • Your View
soundoff (405 Responses)
  1. Duarte Santos

    Talking with Taliban is to recognize them, after a decade of fighting to rule them out as the kind of Government which is not desirable on this planet. It's also a proof of incapacity of US and Nato to eliminate a band of terrorists. Do not blame the Geography for this defeat, a lot has to do with the adopted political and military strategies, along with the fact that feeding billions of dollars to Pakistan to protect Al Qaeda (Taliban Allies, if you don`t know it by now !) is not a great help. Well, why not bringing back all the armed forces, stop being the Police of the World, and with all those savings (run into trillions), effectively defend the US.

    October 19, 2010 at 10:00 am | Report abuse |
    • markjuliansmith

      It would be nice to think one could walk away. This time as in the past doing so will bring greater grief not less. Sometime you have to step up and continue to do so for the alternative is not worth thinking about.

      It should also be noted we are on this earth together lines drawn on the map to delineate territory between States cannot or ever has protected you from what occurs across that line.

      We are our neighbor’s keeper for if we do not care who will care when our turn inevitably comes?

      October 19, 2010 at 5:20 pm | Report abuse |
  2. Robrob

    I highly recomend people here *read* a little on the subject of COIN before they post again. Galula's book, "Counter Insurgency" for example is easy reading and for a book published in 1964 seems almost word for word what's going on today in Afghanistan.

    October 19, 2010 at 8:00 am | Report abuse |
  3. markjuliansmith

    “Against all probability, against the very nature of things, this phenomenon of Nazism continued and continually grew in force; it subdued its own reluctant nation, overcame every element of tough resistance and repulsion, gnawed its way through all obstacles, and restrictions, and gained strength from every sort of opposition. A triumph of will power, indeed, for this man and his gutter – bred following.”

    THE BEAST FROM THE ABYSS Hermann Rauschning 1941

    Have we learned nothing? Is it not clear caving in to evil begets more evil?

    Surely Mullah Mohammed Omar the Taliban leader and his companion in bloody debauchery Osama bin Laden the al-Qaeda leader have proven themselves to be vicious beasts willing to say and do anything to advance their textual template as did Hitler and his thugs not so many years ago?

    Are not the Taliban and al-Qaeda immediately recognizable in Rauschning’s 1941 text?

    The US paying for the Taliban to turn up at negotiations is based on the same logic used by British Prime Minister Neville Chamberlain on the 30 September 1938 who proclaimed "peace for our time" as a result of the Munich Agreement permitting Nazi German annexation of Czechoslovakia's Sudetenland.

    Apathy to the danger we face from the same textual template, though this time Islamic, of justified hate and ‘grevious harm’ against other as it has in the past will be civilized societies undoing.

    October 19, 2010 at 7:28 am | Report abuse |
  4. Basir Feda

    There is surely no solution to the Afghan problem unless a political solution is sought. I believe the Taliban leadership must be approached for peace talks. Bringing back Taliban soldiers at the lower ranks would be fairly successful given that they have material motivations, i.e fighting because they are poor. Those who fight because they feel injustice has been done to them (they've lost family members etc) and those who fight an ideological war who probably outnumber economically motivated Taliban can be re-integrated only if their leadership strike a deal with Karzai's government. Nevertheless, military pressure must be maintained as forcefully as possible (it should not lead to alienating the public though so civilian deaths must be avoided at all cost). This is important in order to take away Taliban's morale and their hope of re-gaining control in the country.

    The current peace drive by the government could be seriously undermined owing to the composition of the peace council. The head and many members of the council are not only anti-Taliban but also warlords who could not be entrusted with such an important task to complete.

    October 19, 2010 at 6:58 am | Report abuse |
  5. mmi16

    Any end game will be a political solution with all the interested parties dukeing it out.

    October 19, 2010 at 3:12 am | Report abuse |
  6. John

    What do you expect, Iraq is talking with Iran, the Arabs do it every time. Today their talking tomorrow they will start fighting again. And us like stupid asses are in the middle. GET THE HELL OUT NOW.

    October 18, 2010 at 10:18 pm | Report abuse |
  7. totalnonsense

    You don't talk with the taliban, you kill then on sight

    October 18, 2010 at 6:51 pm | Report abuse |
  8. Barney

    Taliban is a generic name for "One who enjoys bringing people down in order to control them and set themselves up high". What a bunch of A@#hol$s. They just can't see how wrong it is to hold their people in bondage, disallowing them to do anything positive in their lives.

    October 18, 2010 at 3:35 pm | Report abuse |
    • LarryKegel(US Army)

      That is the same trouble Israel is having with the Palestine!!!

      October 18, 2010 at 5:41 pm | Report abuse |
  9. SAnwar

    For arguments sake, that part of world is least democratic, Pakistan, Afghanistan, India etc etc are sham democracies, Afghans never had anything until we dismantled only sane system of Government they had, Pakistan political structure is immature, India elected Government kills 2000 of its own people (G00gle for Gujarat Killings British High Commission Report, European Union declared Indian state’s Chief Minister Narendra Modi persona non grata, BRAVO EU that all they could do, BUT He won the next elections, coz he killed the unwanted minority, BRAVO.) .

    So lets not think of democracy as its know in western hemisphere. AND democratic process, its success only depends on how it is conducted based on local realities, Pashtuns are a majority and Taliban main base line support. No solution to Afghanistan will be long lasting until the fears and or dominant political / terrorist powers are accommodated.

    October 17, 2010 at 11:05 pm | Report abuse |
  10. OldWarrior

    Being retired military it's time we cut the best deal possible and leave Afghanistan unless we're ready to overrun or wholefully attack Pakistan and open up another Iraq...I don't think so. If the Taliban wind up taking over the country...it's no longer our fight unless they start exporting terrorism.

    Remember, in order for the Taliban to do this means they have to come out of their caves and safe zones. Open targets present different options that indirect tools can take care of, verses having troops on the ground and fighting a never ending scenario with very little to show for our gains other than making our military serve multiple combat tours. We need to engage only in those conflicts that if we do have to have troops on the ground…that it should only be for a short campaign with a long term vision and a conscience, that we, as a country, can stomach and live with among ourselves and within the international community.

    October 17, 2010 at 7:50 pm | Report abuse |
    • MikeinHouston

      @ OldWarior

      There are no "best deal(s) possible". It was a bad "deal" to begin with, and it will remain a bad deal. Our only objective
      is Osama (alive in our custody or dead in theirs). Whether it's a "best deal" or not is a moot question, and Taliban be damned...

      October 17, 2010 at 8:28 pm | Report abuse |
    • LarryKegel(US Army)

      What do You think Obama is trying to do!!! The problem is right now They aren't ready to make any deal...

      October 18, 2010 at 5:39 pm | Report abuse |
  11. just a dumb US taxpayer

    Our FRIEND Karzai sleeping with our enemies

    October 17, 2010 at 4:04 pm | Report abuse |
    • LarryKegel(US Army)

      In a way so does Our Troops!!!

      October 18, 2010 at 4:38 pm | Report abuse |
  12. Mack

    How can one set of people be so arrogant? Of course we should let the Afgan "government" talk with the Taliban. In fact, why are we even considering meddling in the affairs of a sovreign nation. We would not want any other nation interfering in our internal negotiations, and have, in fact, gone to war over that very principle. So, just leave these nations do what they feel is in their best intrest, bring our noble troops home, and concentrate on our internal problems.

    October 17, 2010 at 2:17 pm | Report abuse |
    • LarryKegel(US Army)

      I wonder what would have happen if We would have done that during WWII??? Do You really think Things Would Be as They are now???

      October 18, 2010 at 4:37 pm | Report abuse |
  13. fred a chicado

    Korea, Vietnam, Iraq war, after years of fighting with no end in sight, all ended up with both sides talking to each other and coming to a mutral agreement that this was a waste of time, manpower and money. Look at Vietnam they are one of our many trading friends in the southeast. I servered in the Vietnam war in the Mekong Delta and after a month in country, I asked, "what are we doing here and for what cause?" So talking to each other is the proper way to end the conflict.

    October 17, 2010 at 11:00 am | Report abuse |
    • LarryKegel(US Army)

      I lose a lot of My Brothers there!!! I like to Think that They died for a good reason not for nothing... I'm sure the Rest of the Military that fought there feels the same way!!!

      October 18, 2010 at 4:32 pm | Report abuse |
  14. Ken Skelps

    War and international conflict has and continues to change. The last time we were "officially" at war as declared by an act of Congress was WW II. Our enemies are no longer only nation-states, but large organizations which act like them and have the power to do great harm. Some say to negotiate with them gives them validity, but they already have validity with large numbers of people. Negotiation does NOT mean give in to the will of the enemy. It means explore conditions under which hostilities can end under terms which both sides find acceptable. Nor does it mean we stop fighting.

    October 17, 2010 at 9:33 am | Report abuse |
    • LarryKegel(US Army)

      They don't want to call it a war... Because if they did They would have to win it!!! This Way the Rich get Richer at the cost of the Middle Class and Poor money and Children...

      October 18, 2010 at 4:29 pm | Report abuse |
  15. Good Muslims

    the american government is rumored to have a new program
    any muslim who turns in or kills bin laden, will receive 100,000 converts to be sponsored by the muslim who turns in or kils bin laden or any of the muslims friends relatives can sponsor any of the 100,000 converts, a local NY Iman will confirm this call the 1-800 number today before another muslim takes advantage of the sponsoring of the converts. you can be 6 years old or 99 years old, age is not an issue, promote your religion, promote islam, sponsor the 100,000 converts tomorrow if you provide the information, hurry before your muslim neighbour turns him in sooner. be absolved for eternity, gain free passage between heaven and earth for eternity!!!

    October 17, 2010 at 4:24 am | Report abuse |
    • LarryKegel(US Army)

      Don't You think with that amount of money they would have turned Bin Laden in already??? Let them go to Texas at Bush's Ranch and They can give Me the Money now!!!

      October 18, 2010 at 4:27 pm | Report abuse |
  16. Lee R. Williams

    Depends on your bent, winning, loosing or another Korea-Viet Nam giveup.

    The Boomer Crowd cannot defend themselves. It's that simple. They failed in 1970's as young adults that are failing now as the check-out generation. Their grand-children will make up for their losses. We can wait. When you haven't got you haven't got it and they haven't got it.

    October 17, 2010 at 12:58 am | Report abuse |
    • LarryKegel(US Army)

      We would have won both Vietnam and Korea if the Politicians would have left it to the Military Leaders!!! Obama has proved that with Iraq and will also prove it with Afghanistan!!!

      October 18, 2010 at 4:24 pm | Report abuse |
  17. southernjent

    Paronia: I am tired of hearing from about China and North Korea &, Irans superiour weapon that can kill an aircraft carrier or blow the USA to Kingdom Come. Who are you preparing to war with? No one want's your counties. Tell me, who is planning on attacking you . What would they do with you it had control over, . feed 3 billion hungry people. North Korea has to be kidding. Who would want to live in that stink hole. China – North Korea – you do not have to worry about Chrisendom blowing up your statues of BUDDA. We like the old fat boy .And besides – Budda was not an off-spring of Abraham.
    As far as I'm concerned Christens, Jews, and Moslems are full of hand-me-down fables that has stupified the minds of the people until they have gon crazy. "Kill the infidel" " God liked death, blood and gore" Beat your women for making me sin.
    Throw a sack over your women because you are not man enough to control your brains – which are between your legs- rather than in your head. " I didn't do it the Devil mademe do it. What a joke you all are.

    October 16, 2010 at 10:50 pm | Report abuse |
  18. southernjent

    I appreciate CNN posting my comments. I try posting similar comments with FOX NEWS and they will not publish them.
    It appears that I , and other, have been duped by Fox News. They talk about freedom of the press , but will censor what they consider " Pollitically Correct." I do not use the "N" word, I do not use profanity - only what I think. And if I am insane let the people on the forum tell me. I believe Fox News needs to review the mind-set of their " Posting Moderators" I think many, if not all, need to be fired and replaced with a balanced minded staff. If I say the president of North Korea is a jerk and he needs his butt kicked -that is what I think and that should be publised. Like I say - It's an opiion - not a threat.

    October 16, 2010 at 10:24 pm | Report abuse |
  19. southernjent

    I am for completly withdrawing all American troops from all Islam countries, with exception. The citizens of that country have an election and state the reason why they want us there. We (U.S.A.) tend to stick our noses into other peoples business.
    Let's focus our attention on the BIG BOYS who have the capability of hurting us with their nuclear weapons. One of their missiles placed at a particular place can do the USA more harm than all these third world Islamic States cobined.
    Americans are loosing faith in our gutless leaders who will not see after the security of the U.S.A. That is the job that they have been paid for. The US citizens can take care of the rest. Do your job and leave us along.- PLEASE.

    October 16, 2010 at 10:10 pm | Report abuse |
    • phan

      We dont have to worry about anyone except for IRAN who is becoming a nuclear power and unwilling to negotiate.. And NORTH KOREA. Before commenting please have and idea of what's going on.

      October 18, 2010 at 12:24 pm | Report abuse |
    • LarryKegel(US Army)

      Why not just bring back all Our Troops from all Over the World and see what would happen then??? Our Troops staying is the ones that makes sure that 9/11 will never happen here again!!!

      October 18, 2010 at 4:21 pm | Report abuse |
  20. Mattski

    I can't see a scenario where some sort of peace is achieved with the Taliban yet we remain at war with Al Qaeda. Does anyone believe the the Taliban would stand by and abide by the treaty while we still battled Al Qaeda? Not likely. They are too intertwined, if not on an official level, certainly on a local, man-to-man level. Just look at North Waziristan in Pakistan.

    October 16, 2010 at 12:04 pm | Report abuse |
    • LarryKegel(US Army)

      If we make PEACE with the Taliban... Al Qaeda Wouldn't have a place to be and would be finish!!!

      October 18, 2010 at 4:18 pm | Report abuse |
  21. BillyBarue

    It's not our country. It's their country. If they want to beat their women, starve their children and sell heroin to willing buyers, more power to them. Any more of this 9/11 nonsense and we just drop the big one on them. Seems pretty simple to me. People think that will start WW3. I ask this. Is anyone really...REALLY scared of the freakin' Muslims and their AK47's on camelback? We haven't even used a 100th of our military capacity in Iraq or Afghanistan. If we thought they were a threat even half as big as Hitler and the Nazis, a hundred million of them would be dead within 3 years.

    October 16, 2010 at 7:57 am | Report abuse |
  22. Mountain Muslim Monkey

    If we can not get the Mexicans and Columbians to stop dealing in drugs, how can we get the mountains apes to stop growing poppies? That's all they know. Maybe if we set up more schools and less bomb dropping, maybe things will change for the better. Blame the idiots in Washington for selling the sand apes of Saudi Arabia 60 billion in arms.

    October 15, 2010 at 7:43 pm | Report abuse |
    • LarryKegel(US Army)

      Mexico is fighting to get drugs out of there... We have to train the Villagers to farm goods that would be more profitable than the drugs are for the Tarriest!!! I'm sure They be happy to learn too because They wouldn't have to worry about the Tarriest killing them...

      October 18, 2010 at 4:14 pm | Report abuse |
  23. RB

    The Taleban are already getting weapons and ammo and cash from the US and NATO. In fact they have to be bribed in order for any arms shipments to get into Afghanistan ! The war is a farce and any peace talks are even a bigger farce. Want to shoot at us? .... there is a fee ... want to talk with us? ...... there is fee.......... get it....?

    October 15, 2010 at 7:43 pm | Report abuse |
    • LarryKegel(US Army)

      It is the Cheney and Bush's selling Them the arms in the first place!!!

      October 18, 2010 at 4:12 pm | Report abuse |
      • Marsue

        The forum is a bhrgiter place thanks to your posts. Thanks!

        July 12, 2011 at 10:31 am | Report abuse |
  24. Mountain Muslim Monkey

    Muslims with little or no education can not be trusted no matter what. These people still see the earth as flat. Get real. Its like trying to talk to a jungle monkey from the trees, which explains why the believe in a butcher for a phrophet.

    October 15, 2010 at 7:39 pm | Report abuse |
    • LarryKegel(US Army)

      I guess Your finally admitting How Stupid you really are right???

      October 18, 2010 at 4:11 pm | Report abuse |
  25. MikeinHouston

    Yeah, Negotiate! Give 'em Bush II, Saudi Inc., Wolfowitz, Rhove, Cheney, and Rumsfeld for Osama bin Laden.
    If they refuse waste their stinkin' little piece of the planet.

    October 15, 2010 at 4:12 pm | Report abuse |
    • LarryKegel(US Army)

      Most of the Leaders we are fighting now were put there by a Republican President!!!

      October 18, 2010 at 4:09 pm | Report abuse |
  26. MikeinHouston

    No point in posting here...Especially when the post is thrown out by censors. Yeah YOU, CNN...

    October 15, 2010 at 3:42 pm | Report abuse |
  27. Jed

    Kudos to those that know the truth. It would be interesting to see what the Taliban would bring to the table. Would they want autonomy? Amnesty? Integration? Mayhem should not be an option. Alas, with the newly found deposits of lithium you'd think greed would be a common denominator. Where is Genghis Khan when you need him?

    October 15, 2010 at 12:32 pm | Report abuse |
    • LarryKegel(US Army)

      When They see Greed from the Free World!!! How can You expect any difference from Them???

      October 18, 2010 at 4:08 pm | Report abuse |
  28. boscobear

    We should just get out now–their government is corrupt and both in Iraq and in Afghanistan the only result has been a huge loss of life, millions of $ wasted and a terrible toll on American and these countries.

    October 15, 2010 at 10:31 am | Report abuse |
  29. Susan

    Peace. For me and my family we will NEVER FIND PEACE. I lost my son in Afghanistan. I don't see peace in this country at all. Let us just bring our TROOPS home so that other families DO NOT have to ENDURE the pain I have suffered.

    October 15, 2010 at 9:43 am | Report abuse |
    • LarryKegel(US Army)

      I lose a lot of My Brothers in Vietnam!!! I like to feel it was for a good cause... I wish They would have finished the War instead of letting it end the way it did!!! Things might be a lot better there today if We did...

      October 18, 2010 at 4:03 pm | Report abuse |
  30. jrvf5090

    You all judge from your point of view. I wonder how any of you would survive if dropped there with no resources? Would you align with foreigners knowing they will eventually leave? Put yourself in the ordinary man's shoes and you might get some understanding of what is really the situation. It is tribal ...........

    October 15, 2010 at 8:47 am | Report abuse |
  31. LarryKegel(US Army)

    We will when the President and the ones running it is ready!!! Now because You are ready...

    October 14, 2010 at 8:48 pm | Report abuse |
  32. Ana

    I dont care about that part of the world, there will never be any kind of peace over there and our money is being wasted. They can all kill THEMSELVES. They do anyways. We need to get our troops out of there and focus on whats going on in the US, there are more important things here at home that need to be fixed and could really use all that money thats being wasted to fix a place that cant be fixed. Why should we care?? Let them kill each other like they do and GET OUR TROOPS OUT OF THERE. Thats all i care about.

    October 14, 2010 at 7:40 pm | Report abuse |
  33. Barry

    We need to get out NOW!!!!

    October 14, 2010 at 5:48 pm | Report abuse |
  34. mikeinsiouxfalls

    Either they have to solve their own social and religious problems or nothing will ever change. They just need a little push. Maybe we did, maybe we didn't. Now all we can do is destroy the incentive to attack us. If we are attacked we need to make a reprisal so horrific that no one would risk another attack. Can the drones be fitted with tactical nuclear weapons? Just asking. I really don't want to sound like Dr. Strangelove or The Dick Cheney; but obviously this area has never got past Stone Age thinking. Maybe we should show them we, too, can sink to their level and visit hell on earth to these death worshippers. If we do it to them isn't that also the will of Allah? They'll probably still get into Paradise. They'll just be easier to spot because of the radioactive glow. Peace and Love.

    October 14, 2010 at 1:19 pm | Report abuse |
  35. UdnihJ

    Request to all the Hindus that troll on CNN boards , please dont be prejudiced and abusive towards Muslims , take the Jobs from America to India and be happy with that ,we will have the media blame China for the job losses.

    October 14, 2010 at 10:58 am | Report abuse |
  36. bailoutsos

    Hey, CNN wants you to share your memories of those you loved that have died in Iraq and Afghanistan, soon Iran. Maybe it is time to bring all our sons and daughters home?

    October 14, 2010 at 10:54 am | Report abuse |
  37. Saboteur

    I think peace talks is not worst thing we can do but we have to be smart about and not let them play games with us but really if we can end this war and bring our troops home then we should consider it . I read a previous article that the taliban fully deny there are peace talks going on, I believe that there's a possibility that on the outskirts of this regime there are individuals who are tired of fighting a war that has no end in sight, these individuals might be tribal leaders who are not real believers of the taliban,but regardless of who they are, this shows that maybe the taliban are losing support within there ranks. What do you guys think???

    October 14, 2010 at 10:30 am | Report abuse |
  38. PHAN

    This has been going on for 100's of years and their problems have worked there way across the oceans to US and our ALLIES.. so when is enough, enough?

    its never gonna end until muslims fix it for themselves butthe problem for us is that they are working at gods pace and when people work at gods pace if goes bad very slowly and thats where we are today.

    radicals have taken over the middle east. and there religion has been hijacked. we will never kill all the taliban.. but thats not the point. the point is that we put them on the run and have them looking up their entire lives. radicals are fighting a war they can win.. because will are relentless. we wont give up because we cant give up..

    Radicals have destroy'd the face of ISLAM, ALLAH. Muslims are more hated now than any other time in history BECAUSE the moderates muslims havent fought. They let radicals strap bombs to the koran and they let it be preached. The region have spiraled out of control and the moderate muslims havent done anything about it. they let this happen. and now we are there and we wont leave until they take control back. maybe they should pray to ALLAH for alittle help. maybe they have and thats us, unfortunately.

    Use the drones and use our technology to make this war last as long as they want it to last. mccain was right. 50/100 years is what we are looking at.. sorry to all the tree huggers out there but we cannot and will not abandon this war. its too important and the only answer is peace through superior fire power because negotiations with people unwilling to negotiate doesnt work.

    there is no other solution.. so if they want terror. they got it. they will be on the run forever. if thats how muslims will continue to chose to live then we have alot of work head of us.


    October 14, 2010 at 10:04 am | Report abuse |
  39. markjuliansmith

    Unless the underlying text changes which supports the Taliban’s preferred life template negotiating with them is a useless exercise.

    The Taliban will say anything, promise anything to gain advantage. Remember the Taliban call for Freedom of the Press so their terrorist attacks would be broadcast live? Remember the continued attacks against girl’s schools and women’s rights? Etc..

    Does anyone seriously believe the Taliban will promote freedom of speech and women’s rights if given even a portion of power?

    Now we have the Taliban denying they are even in discussions with the Afghan Government.

    The problem is the real Taliban have not changed their text, have no intention of doing so therefore it is either us or them.

    The Taliban either live under a Democratic template or we live under a Taliban template to stop the terrorism take your pick.

    October 13, 2010 at 8:19 pm | Report abuse |
  40. bailoutsos

    America's enemy has changed, so methods of dealing with them have to change.

    October 13, 2010 at 7:48 pm | Report abuse |
  41. Murderous_Phrohet

    As long as the free world keeps its head in the sand and pretends that Islam is not a cult, the world of the free will continue to see the same sh!t with Muslims around the world. All other true religions do not commit such atrocities because they are free to discuss them openly and even allow themselves to be critisized. All forms of news media should stop being afraid of the boggy man Muslim extremist. Mohammend was just a warrior and he killed people, Jesus did none of that to send the same message. That's the kind of news that should be going out, not the pansy crap CNN puts out to respect all religions. First of all, no one has ever proven Islam to be a religion. A true religions does not require intimidation and threats of death like the cult Islam does. The Saudi are the worst to enforce their evil ways. Speak up CNN?

    October 13, 2010 at 7:29 pm | Report abuse |
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