This is the history of the world in a nut shell: the rich screw over the poor and the poor get screwed. Nothing is perfect and mistakes will always be made. I'm a Soldier with time spent in both theaters of operations multiple times. My security and the security of the Men I serve with are worth a lot more than a twentysomthing computer geek that wants to change a world that he knows nothing about by putting all of us in great danger. The people we are fighting are not stupid, in fact, some of their leaders have degrees and years of experience in conducting an insurgency against a well equipped and well trained superpowers. Anything that is put on the web or talked about on the news is intel, everything is valuable. So why is there any talk at all about the legality of this kid's actions? This is pure and simple treason in wartime and death is the penalty. Get it over with and let’s find something else that is dumb to argue about.
seems you people, including pinyata and clintons have BAD memories.
The reason we did not take out Bin Laden when we had the chance?
easy for you to say setting on your couch. it i si who decided if i pull the trigger or not. not you.
it is between My self and God. and at the time it was the right call.
and you all seem to forget we tagged and bagged Bin laden wiht his cell phone.
and we missed.
then he stopped using his cell phone.
you were saying private meatshield?
Headline from msnbc:
Newsweek: Taliban seek vengeance in wake of leaks
oh yes,things were going so "Swimingly" before,
Another true american. uses my mother as referance, hmm "muzzie". and your answer? Genetic selection.
i agree you are a good argument for abortion. and how how clever you are as you hide in america and use a fake name.
notice again the use of the term "we".
The entire world watched those planes fly in to those towers. the entire world watched those jews board and murder those protestors. the entire world watched as that gunship shot those peopel and that reporter in cold blood.
87 out of 110 and House memebers are trying to block the investigation. all those politiicans have takin billions in jew and zionest money. these are all known fact.
and thank you for showing once again what you think of "my Kind",
There is a reason the youth do the labor whilst oversight is by the wise and older, especially in the military. Because the youth have their collective left thinking heads up their asses and cannot posssibly see the big picture. This idiot would have sold his mother's soul to the muzzies for his immediate gratification not realizing that his own and that of his children was included. Ladies and gentlemen, what we have here is a clear example of an elaborate way of ensuring that the gene pool is cleansed of one more fool. Good deal. Way good deal.
Turn That Soldior Loose and Go Arrest Robert Gates. Or you resign. and take Leon Panetta with you.
He is Next.
I totally agree with you on that,General.You said it all!
It doesn't matter what your personal political beliefs are. It doesn't matter if you believe we should be in Iraq or Afghanistan. When you enlist in the military you have to take an oath. You have to conduct yourselves professionally, and in accordance with military regulations and policies. These thing are not negotiable. What this soldiers did is a crime under the Uniform Code of Military Justice. For that alone he should be punished to the fullest extent of the law. Think carefully before you sign a contract, take an oath, and put on a uniform. It is an honor to serve this great nation, but you must know you can no longer conduct yourself like a typical civilian.
If no one broke the rules to establish truth-then everyone would be living a lie.
I understand what you are saying, but as a member of the Armed Services you willingly gives up some of you rights when you enlist. If you are not ok with that then don't enlist.
So, your point is> If you believe in the basic tenants of freedom (truth, disclosure, transparency, etc) then don't enlist in a corrupt regime that would violate these terms to undermine the very foundation(democracy) by which they exist? Sounds like a road to hell for any sentient patriot. Or you could take Gandhi's advice-and be the change you wish to see in the world
There are rules and safeguards built into the Military for reporting "wrongdoing" and abuse and unless this Soldier can prove that he followed every other available course of legal action then he should be tried for treason.
The military is a tool of foreign policy, which is in turn a product of the democratic process. There are the ideas of our democracy and then there are the practices. Sometimes these coincide and other times they seem to stray apart. Regardless a soldier serves the ideas. If our government deems military action as being in the interest of national defense, then our military as a tool of foreign policy kicks into gear. Soldiers defend the idea, not the actual politics. They are an instrument of YOUR policy, empowered by YOUR majority. In the end our foreign policy is an extension of YOU, and the military is sent on YOUR behalf. Even if you disagree with the justification of war, by being a citizen of this country you are agreeing to submit to the will of the majority, and therefore you own the war in Afghanistan as much as the next citizen.
I wouuld just like add another fact that has struck me. Regardless of what war this country is engaged in there have always been dissenters. It is the nature and beauty in our system. There were Tories during the American Revolution, pacifists during the Civil War, isolationists during the two world wars, "cultural visionaries" during Vietnam, and now upset soccer moms during these wars. I would just like to say I appreciate you. Without you we wouldn't have places like Canada and meaning behind the word patriot. Please feel free to stay in my beautiful country because after all that is why my forefathers and my peers shed their blood...
That was nice Mr. Rogers-won't you be my neighbor?
Anytime shannon1. And don't worry, if a thief breaks into your house I will rush over with my gun as fast as possible. And if you need me to mow your lawn again next week I am more than willing to. You are the best neighbor ever...
All you people ought to stop flappping your gums and read Caravans by Michener!! That will explain why we should not be in Afghanistan!!!!!
Good question-Both the economic dependency of the soldier and his family, in conjunction with the prescribed group think mentality that makes for an effective fighting force present overwhelming barriers when considering one's options in exposing the disjuncture between truth and fiction at your next commanders call. Our independence was established by means of a government for the people and by the people. The men and women of our armed forces are sworn to protect that right. The UCMJ has jurisdiction here-so he must bring it to the people to be afforded any remedy. More than that-he is a function of freedom which can only exist in an environment of truth. This holds true on so many levels in our society and our broad based ignorance to it will eventually destroy any semblance of the ideals that made this county great. We must lead by example. Our moral standing is well reflected in the eyes of the world by the actions of our military-Let's not let this soldier down by buying in to the stale rhetoric designed to deceive the electoral base and validate the actions of our runaway military industrial complex. "Liberty and Ignorance cannot co-exist" Thomas Jefferson
Our independence was not established by means of a governemnt for the people etc etc... That's what it was established for. The means by which it was established was by killing. Lots of killing. That falls to the men and women who are willing to put the needs of others first. In the military its known as selfless service. A term most of the American population is unfamiliar with. Regardless of this soldier's personal issues he broke military law. It's real simple, in the military you don't get to choose which laws you will follow, and which ones you won't. Break a law and get punished accordingly.
Well said. People forge that war is what makes and breaks nations and that if your not willing to take the fight to the enemy the enemy will come to you. Thus europe and WW2. And the reason we are expected to be the worlds police force.
were not talking about independence, were talking about government. their quite separate ideas, and the path too them also varies.
If that were true then your post proclaiming such would have never showed up.
I switched my IP, Email, and Handle-why don't you contribute instead of trying to play detective.
@ shannon1 – I have contributed to the discussions…but if they were trying to censor your comments then simply changing your info wouldn't stop them. I believe the Soldier to be a traitor and should be tried for treason unless he can prove that he attempted to go through the proper channels for his concerns. There are things that civilians simply do not need to know.
i just reposted the message they blocked her eunder what im doing on this message board in Ga.
I have been censored also
My Message was just Blocked.
So was mine.It seems like these conservatives cannot stand to have peole blogging in here who do not agree with them.This is not right!
Such fickle and emotional creatures we are. Fortunately the internet has given us a medium on which to channel our genius thoughts on conspiracy and the fairness of war. You are dealing with powers much greater than yourselves. Powers that have existed for millenia. There are basic, fundamental principles that drive foreign policy and determine whether or not US soldiers are in harms way. Whether you conciously support the fight or not, you are supporting it through the comfortable life you live on a daily basis. It comes down to power and the ability to protect our way of life from outsiders. Fortunately this exchange has become less one-sided as we have applied greater law of war to our conflicts, but the concept of "law of war" itself is quite silly. Yes an American girl is more important than an Afghan girl, yes we would rather have 10 afghan civilians die than one of our own boys. This fact has never changed in war. The only difference now is that you as the people are more aware of it now. Congratulations on feeling you have gained insight based off a huge mess of unconfirmed reports that an Army specialist had access to. Realize how much of a joke our opinions are and be thankful that you have the luxury of complaining about such trivial things...
I couldn't agree more. If you don't believe that American lives are more important then everyone else in the world, then you don't belong in the Military. I believe in reducing causalities as much as possible but ultimately an Americans life is worth more than a foreigners.
American agents gave info about Israeli spies to Lebanon, who in turn gave it to Hezbollah, who in turn have killed 2 or more Israeli spies. As The World Turns.
U.S. Persian Gulf involvement started in 1940. Seventy years ago. A lifetime in essence. Do we keep doing the same things we have been doing for the next 70? To a rational person it is obvious our policy has not worked or else we would not be fighting 2 wars and assisting various other countries in the Persian Gulf. We trained, armed and supported Saddam Hussein in the Iraq-Iran War. We armed, trained and supported Bin Laden to oppose the Russians in Afghanistan. Neither could be called a successful strategy. It is past time to go in a different direction. We can not keep being dependent on Persian Gulf Oil, nor fighting wars for the same.
As a Vietnam vet, I am sick of this country's arrogance, aggression and its killing at will. The man is a hero for exposing what this country is about. Remember My Lai?
Extremely well stated,thoremann.
Just for a moment, think of your kids' school in the sights of a drone pilot because one of the
teachers is a criminal and needs to be eliminated. Would u not be angry as hell?
How right you are,Dinesh!!! Need I say more???
Many, many civlians have been killed in Afghanistan during drone strikes simply because the US army does not
have the guts to put boots on the ground and go after the one person that actually needs to be killed. This is cowardly
and it is simply murder and hence the wikileaks leaks are justified. The drones fire often with full knowledge that
civilians will be killed. If the roles were reversed and the Taliban were killing American civilians, imagine what the
reaction would be. Lets not be hypocrites. The life of a little Afghani girl is worth the same as the life of an American
girl but it appears that Americans dont think so. Else they would never tolerate the drone strikes. Its cowardly and shameful
i.e. If you cant do a surgical strike to kill that one person, just beat it. Who are you to put a price
on the innocent Afghanis, often kids, who will be killed?
Quite right,Dinesh.Our armed forces have come quite low since WW2,I'm ashamed to say.They just don't fight the way they used to!
This has nothing to do with the Armed Forces and everything to do with the politically correct and gutless civilian voters and leadership which tie the hands of the Military and keeps us from doing what needs to be done. There is too much civilian interference in Military matters.
I would vote for you man,that was tearful
sorry for the double post
So easy to beat on straw Men as you Justify your actions. I have been in this particular war since 1983.
This war did not start on 9/11. Bin Laden did not fall out of the sky on 9/11. you just did not care until 9/11.
and you bring up the saudis? while you complain about how Taliban treat their women? but good Point they were all Sunni Arabs. Taliban offered to give you Bin Laden. You attacked anyway.
"We" need to stop islam you say? oh you mean "some one Else".
Dont beleive you eyes. Believe what I tell me.
Kill them all let God sort them out. Nuke Them. Carpet Bomb Them. Use Unmanded Drones. Hell fire Missles.
Sanctions. Starve them. Bomb them back to the stone age.
and torture is ok. asasinating americans out side america is ok.
the problem? letting in to many low lifes.
Please don't take this personal, but I think you need some help. As already said, your comments don't make much sense in the context of the other postings and the video.
One can argue (reasonably) about the effectiveness or necessity of (both) the Iraqi and Afghanistan Wars. Iraq has come a long way. Without the Americans, Iraq would now be governed by Qusay or Uday Hussein (which ever psychopath won the war to kill each other). The press almost never discusses this. Surely anti-war advocates couldn't see Uday or Qusay as helpful?
Afghanistan was where the 911 attacked "started." It was promulgated by Pakistani and Saudis. However, without Afghanistan free and open for terrorists, it would have been almost impossible to plan the event in Saudi Arabia....less so Pakistan. I guess we want to do nation building in Afghanistan. Most reasonable people think our ability to do that is less than 20%. But it is not impossible. Clearly it would (and will) cost American lives though.
We have to stop or slow down Islam. Somehow. I'm not sure the best ways to do it, but I do know that we must contain it. (Did you ask your wife if she wants to wear a chador?)
"Multiculturalism means only Islam to Islamic nations."
The leaks were probably not as damaging as the anti-war advocates who revealed them...in their trying to stop the war.
That said, if any American soldiers get killed because of this duplicity, then the perpetrators of the leaks are responsible for this.
Sounds like you are defending spying and treason. Being against the war is one thing. Defending the actions of a traitorous spy is something entirely different and unacceptable.
On 9/11 MY War in afghaniland ended. YOURS Begain. YOU did not care before then.
MY War with al qaida and taliban ended as well.
There are NO al qaida in Afganiland, but i see they just planeted a flag in bagdad?
Im not Happy. I did not go to Iraq to fight al qaida. Tommy,Wes, and My self took Iraq.
YOU did not take iraq. NOw YOU keep OUR Troops there while YOU Lie.
any of you see that Suicde report?
or this report on the cause?
oh, you let in to many low lifes. THATS The Problem. Blame them?
The ONLY Thing I hav to do with afghaniland is Pat Tillaman = My Man.
This Soldior did what your coward generals should be doing.
your useles feds and c.i.a. refuse to do anything.
from obam and clinton to busha nd rove and cheney.
buisness as usual.
now they run america from faux noise.
I want a tribunal for Pat Tillman.
not my war, not my troops, not my problem.
get MY Troops out of Iraq.
and who is holding up the release of those brats in iran?
May God save YOUR Troops from YOU.
KIss MY BBADASS.
I posted some preliminary statistical analysis of the Wikileaks Afghan Conflict data on my personal blog. Please take a look at it for more figures and maps from the data that you might not find elsewhere.
You are so right, the pols lost the war, the war where every commanders had to check with the "WIZ KIDS" in Washington before they could make a decision, their hands were tied. McNamara wouldn't use the National Guard because of politics at home, and instead sent green kids to fight and they went into the meat grinder of that war. My husband was in Fort Bragg at that time when the National Guard of New Hampshire made a big fuss about "Why Me."
Bush-Cheney should be brought before a war crimes tribunal to investigate if they knew the Billions of free taxpayer dollars they were giving to Pakistan were going directly to the Taliban fighters to murder American and NATO soldiers. It appears Bush-Cheney had full knowledge of that thru America's CIA who has a close relationship with Pakistan's ISI for the past 30 years.
Seriously. Can we please lay the blame it on Bush-Cheney rhetoric to rest. Nothing will ever change unless we focus on the present, plan for the future and learn from the past. We dont need to live in the past. Lets focus on finishing this war and getting our loved ones home.
Unfortunately we live in an imperfect world. Somehow, Islam must be controlled, slowed down or stopped. I'm not sure the best ways to do this, or if it is even possible. (Did you ask your wife if she wants to wear a chador, or accept routine beatings from you?)
War crimes by Cheney and Bush?
I don't think so. We were attacked by the Islamic world. Maybe we should have attacked the Saudis instead of Iraq, but do you really want to have Iraq ruled by Qusay or Uday Hussein? Honestly now?
Listen pal This is something Americans dont seem to get due to severe retardation.
Who Iraq is ruled by is none of your damn business. Leave it to the Iraqis. No one asked you to attack.
How would you like it if Some country attacked the US because they thought Dubya was unsuitable.
You're so arrogant and condescending to want to change some other country's goverment. And dont
tell me that Bush was not as bad as Saddam. Just look at how many deaths he has caused by starting
a stupid, unjustified war in Iraq.
Shannon, hate to bust your bubble but we live in a republic not a democracy. there is a difference.
Bob, No bursting here. I realize that we live under a republican form of government which recognizes the individual sovereignty of it's citizens as opposed to the dictatorship of the majority which manifest the group sovereignty found in a true democracy. That is the only difference between the terms. I hope that my subscription to the term democracy (as is so widely used in the context of this war) does not distract anyone from the point in my conclusion.
You are all screwballs, don't know what war is really like. Please don't sully the ones that are dying, so you can spout
stupid rhetorics as I have read,
Been a radical Muslim all your life, fella?
This Man,Like My self and many others, Gave an oath to defend against enemies abroad and domestic.
Good Job Soldior.
I Salute you.
The Right Path Is Never The easy Path.
The worst kind of slavery is when the chains are on the mind. I applaud those who speak the truth but not those who endanger other peoples lives when doing so from the safety they provide.
Just like Vietnam a huge waste of money and blood. Who cares about the Afghans, it is their country so they need to sacrifice for it. My sons and daughters need to return home and help rebuild our country. The roads, railroads, subways, securing the borders, and helping with the cleanup in the Gulf of Mexico to name a few. The misguided heros of our military are fighting for the rich on Wall Street, the Banks and Big Oil who will not be sharing any of their millions with the injuried vets. Some one has to stand up to the war criminals Bush, Cheney, Rumsfeld, Gates, Mullins, et al. maybe before long even Obama will have to be added to that list. What a disappointment.
just press play on Combat in Iraq. It's easy to set back a speculate why things are being handled the way they are but the bottom line is that with any country someone is in control of the forces that are fighting each other. Once you sign up for that force you have to go in the direction they tell you. Yes two wrongs doesn't make a right but in order to stop the wrongs we have to stop the ones that dwell on killing Americans. We the people have always extended a hand to help people in need but it is over shadowed by the twisting and manipulation of media. Yes a missile may go astray and kill innocent people but that was never the intention, and it only happens a few times but once the al-qaeda's propaganda machine gets their hands on the one incident they edit it and cut and morph it into something that gives a false image of whats really happening. The bad done will always overshadow the good especially if the people manipulating the information is al-qaeda twisting and cuting and editing the truth into whatever they have envisioned.
You have little to say for yourself today how refreshing.
You again,Phunnie boy still trying to get your laugh out of life.And again,we can all use one.
Good grief you two, just get a room will you.
I suppose that this will another attempt at a cover up.These right-wing fanatics will do anything to save their reputations.
Once again correct on both points.
You're an idiot who doesn't know what the _ELL he's talking about. I suspect you've never served your country in any capacity and have nothing better to do than write conspiracy theories and other B.S.
I have served my country pal, and this is just another misguided war that cannot and will not be won. Once again this is about money for defense contractors and overpriced war toys. Take the video game crap and file it under pathetic waste of lives for $.
This captures its well..
Afghanistan Crossroads is where CNN's reporting converges -- bringing you a diversity of voices, stunning images and video, global perspectives and the latest news from on the ground in Afghanistan and around the world.
- This blog was archived in October 2011.
From all parts of the world and spanning all ages, more than 2,500 U.S. and coalition troops have died in Afghanistan.
Explore the names, ages and faces of the fallen