Afghan official: Troops killed civilians
KABUL, Afghanistan - A local Afghan leader says coalition forces shot and killed civilians on Thursday night, a claim disputed by the NATO-led force in Afghanistan.
Nasrutullah Arsala, head of the provincial council of Nangahar province, told CNN on Friday that troops killed nine civilians in Kushkak, a village in the Surkh Rod district of Nangahar, in eastern Afghanistan.
The NATO-led International Security Assistance Force said Afghan and international troops traded fire with insurgents during an operation in Surkh Rod that left a Taliban sub-commander and other militants dead. The NATO-led command says evidence shows that civilians were not killed.
News of possible civilian casualties enraged locals. They staged a demonstration and tried to enter the district governor's compound. Police confronting the protesters shot and killed two civilians, Arsala said.
Civilian deaths during military operations in Afghanistan have undermined the coalition's efforts to gain support among the Afghan people. The United States and other coalition countries have been working to avoid such casualties.
Marine Chuckster...Good Show! That is the kind of passion we need to win the war with people who don't know anything but bloodsport. At the risk of sounding a little mushy....God bless our Servicemen, Marines, Army, Navy.....and I don't care what any one of you feel about it. GeeGee
Seriously, lose the caps, it makes you look like your trying to force your point down our throats rather than educate us simple minded fools who do not see the same view as you do. As far as I am concerned, these "Civillians" died in vain. I am a Former Marine, as my name states, and I have seen my fair share of time in the Gulf... We are not fighting enemies like we were in World War 2, or Korea. We are fighting an invisible enemy. An enemy who is smarter than a 5th grader unfortunately, in fact, smarter than we will ever give them credit for. They ambush convoys and military personnel, they take no quarter, give no aid to the wounded, and they follow no rules in combat. They are ghosts, they blend in with their crowd very well in fact. I mean, hell, they're in the U.S. and people are blind to that fact. Civillian casualties have ALWAYS been expected in any war or any conflict, they are unavoidable, and always tragic. However, when the enemy uses them as bullet shields, then you gotta play, "Two Birds, One Stone." And Hope for the best. As far as, whoever it was that said these civillians are coming out of their houses to see what all the ruckus is about, because they hear machine gun fire, I offer you a few bits of wisdom.
1.) The "Civillians" over there know the difference between NATO weapons, and Insurgent Weapons. The M4 sounds quite a bit different than the AK47.
2.) These people know before the Marines and Soldiers do that the Coalition Forces are rolling into town. Think back to the movie "Black Hawk Down." When the helicopters are flying the Rangers and Delta Force in... Yeah, it's something like that. Where they tell one another, and suddenly, everyone knows. Hell, they have kids watch for it.
3.) Contrary to popular belief, most Soldiers and Marines cannot shoot accurately at 30 yards when they're being shot at, wearing 80 pounds of gear, in a full sprint to cover. In other words, crap happens.
4.) This war IS pointless. Our goal is for Osama, we haven't found him yet. He's either dead or moved onto another country. Either way, we're now fighting the up-hill battle of this war, which will not end for another 10 years. Get used to it America, we aren't backing out of this one.
5.) TYPING IN ALL CAPS DOES NOT MAKE YOU LOOK COOL, OR EVEN GET YOUR POINT ACROSS BETTER, IT LOOKS LIKE YOU'RE AN ARROGANT, YET IGNORANT FOOL WHO RESORTS TO YELLING IN AN INTELLIGENT DEBATE BECAUSE YOU HAVE NO CLUE WHAT YOU ARE TALKING ABOUT! ... Get my point?
Jason, you are lost. We are winning hands down, you just have no idea of what is happening behind the scenes. Between the Troops and the Predators we are taking a hellish toll on the Terrorists and the Taliban. You folks just don't get all the facts from the Media.
Thats one of the reasons I am not to hip on CNN, They were embedded in my unit and they were only taken out into the field on very low key missions and don't even have a clue on the real situation. My unit in Iraq was a lean green killing machine and we swept the streets like street sweepers. The Hadjis would run when they found out they were about to engage Marines, I guess we are the fire ants of the Military!!! I Love and am proud of the Marine Corp " Semper Fi" and I will die for America's Causes and if that is being brain washed then so be it but, you have to believe in something worth it instead of always taking from your country and not giving back. I decided to give Blood for mine.
the U.S. is losing this war! They no chance at success in Afghanistan.
Mr. Chuckster, you could have fooled me! Are you one of the "brain washed" soldiers you seem to think our Marines and Army personnel are? Well, are you??? It seems you know the persona pretty well! I have more respect for semper fi than you do it seems. But I can honestly say I am glad you made it through your tours of duty alive. Chuckster ,I do really mean it. Maybe you could practice cutting someone else a little slack, right? GeeGee
Why do you even print garbage like this? It's propaganda for the Taliban and you fall right into it. They say anything and you report it. You are providing propaganda support to terrorists which is against the law.
I'm not sure who you were responding to. But I don't think sincere debate equates with "providing comfort to the enemy".
to Proletariat... i bet u said this about iraq as well, and yet not one us company won any contracts for oil pumping rights. hmmm isnt that interesting
Cut me some slack GEE GEE, I am a Marine who was in Afganistan 2 tours and 1 tour in Iraq. I know all about 18 year old men taking lead. I am also not as young as you think also, just really, really, good looking!!!!
Well, now Mr Chuckster....I don't smoke....I don't drink....and I don't care if you like it or now, just like I don't care how you feel about my "one brain cell"....I haven't seen anything up until now that makes me think you are doing any better....PLUS...I have many years of maturity on you , I can tell. Just you wait until you hear them play 'TAPS" at the funeral of someone you love.....Yeah, just you wait....and this is the last time I am going to answer a ignorant statement like yours....GEE GEE
Well Mr Snake103, do you shout ALL THE TIME????? I have had someone in Iraq in the last several years....he hasn't shot anyone!...He did his best, along with many other soldiers to fortify the humvees in the hopes of making them safer. Looks to me that it is going to take more than fortifying the humvees to keep our soldiers attached to their limbs. Knowing as many service men as I do, no you monkey, they aren't brain washed!! It sure is wonderful that you know so much about the money end of this war, are you involved???? Just wondering how you would know so much along with the other historians sending their comments in today. I read the papers, I watch the news, I have family in Washington, D C associated with those who know a lot more than you think you do. I am not going to pretend I know about all the underlying factors to this war as you seem to. But one thing is for sure, I don't give a (four letter word) about the money. Now don't you shout at me any more! GeeGee
I think Mr. Snake 103 needs to move out of his mother's basement!
"Coalition forces" = contractors. Since contractors are not held accountable for any of their actions, Arsala would have reason to complain.
No, "Coalition forces" contractors.
Sorry, that was "Coalition forces" ( not equal ) contractors. I won't get fancy with my punctuation again.
Jesus,GEE GEE, get grip girl and stop smoking that crap, it killing your 1 brain cell.
HEY GEEGEE I WONDER IF YOU ARE AWARE THAT THESE 18 YEAR OLD MEN AND WOMEN OF OUR ARMED FORCES ARE JUST THAT, 18 YEAR OLD KIDS BEING TOLD WHERE TO GO AND WHO TO SHOOT. THEY DON'T HAVE THE ABILITY TO DETERMINE WHY THEY ARE FIGHTING, KILLING, AND DYING. THEY ARE PURPOSELY BRAIN WASHED (KINDA LIKE THOSE AL-QUEDA GUYS DO IT) FOR ONE PURPOSE TO BE A TOOL THAT DOESNT QUESTION AUTHORITY AND TO FOLLOW COMMANDS TO THE LETTER. THAT IS THIER JOB. MY HEART ACHES FOR EVERY SOLDIER THAT IS NOT GETTING A CUT OF THE ACTION. THEY ARE THE ONE'S PUTTING THIER LIVES ON THE LINE. THEY SHOULD BE GETTING A CUT OF THE PROCEEDS. IT IS JUST FOR THE MONEY GEE GEE. OTHERWISE THE TALIBAN WOULD HAVE BEEN EXTINGUISHED ALREADY
Sorry ! Hope your friends stay inside at night from now on .
Lennybaby, got a NEWSFLASH for you buddy, wait until Nov. and 2012, you will then understand the Tea Party. For they will inherit America. Somebody in this country has to have the "KAHONAS" to do what needs to be done. Trust me people, America WILL go back to the PEOPLE.
If you're right and I'm afraid you are,the Tea Partiers are going to win bigtime with their candidates claiming large victories over the moderates and thereafter we'll see more military spending,foreign aid givaways and the Pentagon developing more efficient killing machines while our schools and libraries close and our roads and bridges fall into disrepair,not to mention the cuts in both social security and medicare.
WHO CARES! KILL THE REST OF THEM THEN ALL THE TROOPS CAN COME HOME. ENOUGH WITH HALF WARS!
Another brainless rant in all-caps.
Exactly what defines a civilian? How do we know that these supposed "civilians" weren't planting IED's the day before? How do you fight an enemy that hides among the "civilian" population and plants IED's for the Taliban?
Well, you guys, I have read every one of the 80 comments, trying to digest all of it. Time after time, I hear this war or these wars are just about the money. I am wondering that if we ask any one of our soldiers over there if they are just fighting for the money, what would they say? I don't think the reply would be "oh yeah, we are fignting, losing limbs, our buddies lives, little things like that for the money...sure, isn't that why everyone from the US and other countries over here?" I don't think so. Why don't you people, who many of you have never been in the service of this country at all, think about the fear a young 18 year old has the first time he or she comes face to face with the enemy? Now, let me think, is this the enemy or just another innocent civilian, do I let them shoot first or not? I wish Pearl Harbor was just a dream, not a reality, both World Wars, Korea, Vietman, the Gulf War and now the middle east.... My heart aches for the family I have lost to this horrific posturing of multiple countries all these years. My heart aches for everyone who has lost a child, husband, wife, brother, sister to this plague we call war. Just for the money????? No,no, no, NO!!!!!! GeeGee
It's a sign of the times. We can't retaliate against terrorist attacks without having our motives questioned, while al Qaeda operates with impunity.
I sympathize with soldiers trying to protect themselves; civilian casualties are inevitable. The problem is that by bombing and killing people and supporting a corrupt government you provide great recruitment tools for the Taliban. This is a no win situation for the US as it was the Brits and Soviets before them. Lets stop spending 100's of billions we don't have and thousands of lives on a conflict that we cannot win.
@Chuckster.I know that you're mad at CNN but must you use Tea Party lingo in order to show it?We already have enough Tea Partiers blogging in here.And Lorri you obviously have no use for moderates like Daniel who have no stomach for bloodshed and places too much value on the lives of others,but what's wrong with that?
In 2001 the Taliban in Afghanistan were driven from power not just by US forces, but with a strategic ally known as the Northern Alliance–strategic not just in military terms, but in language and culture as well. With regard to the civilian population in a guerrilla war, perception is everything. In respect to the Taliban filtering in among the population using tactics of intimidation and violence, one would have to be blind not to see a parallel to the Viet Cong. From the perspective of the civilian population (in contrast to what many of the above posts rant about), their perception is that one day the Americans–like the British and Russians before them, will go home. And if they collaborate with the NATO troops to aid them, there will be hell to pay when they are left on their own (I wouldn't put too much stock in an Afghan national army protecting them).
The real question folks should be discussing, is whether or not the military brass has again put our brave and talented military men and women into a situation in which they cannot win. In a war like this-just as in Vietnam, you can reign supreme on the battlefield over and over and over, and still not achieve your objectives. To achieve them, you have to stay there forever. And, as history has shown us, sooner or later the country will tire of the effort and cost and bring the troops home. In my opinion, where we went wrong in Afghanistan was to commit large numbers of forces to a conventional-style combat posture, when we should have gone gangbusters for Special Operations Groups and Green Beret to organize a native resistance among the tribal infrastructure(s) to drive al-Qaida out and keep them out. Funny thing about that-you generally do it by buying them. And, in the long run, it would have cost a tiny, tiny fraction of the conventional mess our wizards in the Pentagon have got us into. But then, their real masters are the armaments industry factions that will award them in retirement with million dollar salaries for them to sit on their Board of Directors or through consulting contracts. It's the most blatant conflict of interest going, and all US administrations buy into it. If you are at all skeptical as to how they get away with it, time and time again, just read these posts. Worldwide, Americans are not known for their brilliance. Ask P.T. Barnum.
To Daniel – 2 You have to be the most anti-american I have ever had the displeasure of reading your BS. If you do live here in America, please leave. We do not need people like you here. Hey, I have an idea – head south but do it legally!
I say they are lying out their @ss. Who wants to believe tribal cavemen when they do and sell dope??? I wouldn't believe any Hadji for anything, they just lie thru and thru. I am glad that NATO was there to dispute their Taliban Supported Lies. I say kill em all and let GOD sort it out. Thats the Marine way, and its worked for 200 years!!!!! Oh yea, CNN you suck!!!!!
What an brainless rant.
Hey OPTOMIST... do you insult your American protectors because you think you are an anonymous commenter? They know who you are. I suggest you review the origins of our War on Terror, then submit an apology.
@SNAKE103.Thank you for your honesty.I just wish that the politicians in Washington would be equally honest about our reason for being in Afghanistan and drop all this drivel about us "helping the people" which is in no way true.We're there along with England and France to build an empire and to weaken Islam to the point of getting the Afghans to start chanting "Allah Snackbar" instead of "Allah Akbar" and believe that Capitalism is better than Islam.
LET'S GET OUT AND LEAVE AFGHANISTAN. EVEN RUSSIA DIDN'T WANT TO STAY THERE. WHAT IS THAT COUNTRY GOOD FOR??? I KNOW ALL THEY DO IS GROW DOPE.
Nope. Just us terrorists. Achmed.
NO OPTOMIST AMERICA BAD, TERRORISTS BAD. GET IT? NOBODY FOLLOWING MORAL GUIDELINES. GREED IS GOD. I RESPECT A RED NECKED RASCIST WITH THE WHOLE PILLOW CASE OUTFIT AND SWAZTIKAS BECAUSE REGARDLESS OF THE MORAL STANDING OF THIER BELIEFS ITS HONEST, OUT IN THE OPEN AND THAT GIVES YOU THE ABLILITY TO EITHER AGREE OR DISAGREE. MY PROBLEM WITH OUR COUNTRY IS THAT WERE BULLIES. ALWAYS HAVE BEEN ALL WAYS WILL BE. COOL WITH THAT. NOT A PROBLEM. ACT LIKE IT. DON'T GO OVER THERE UNDER THIS FALSE PRETENSE OF STOPPING THE TALIBAN OR AL-QUEDA. WE ARE THEIR BECAUSE OF THE MONEY. POINT BLANK. THE MONEY. AMERICAN SOLDIERS ARE DYING FOR THE MONEY. LOSING LIMBS BEING BLOWN TO BITS FOR THE MONEY. AND THATS COOL TOO. BUT STOP THE ACT. SAY WE COME TO TAKE YOUR LAND AND RESOURCES AND IF YOU FALL IN LINE YOU LIVE. THAT IS AFGHANISTAN RIGHT NOW. ITS BEEN NINE YEARS. WE WILL NEVER LEAVE. BECAUSE OF THE MONEY.
I think in 21st Century, this is not expected out of war on terror. Invasion of other county is old century war which is against government; not against terrorists. I am just a citizen; not expert on anti-terror strategy. However, the education system has trained me enough to analyze some common sense situations. US is seeking help from Government supporting terrorism like Pakistan, The civilian casualty news will come again and again till proper intelligence is not practiced by collaborative governments. Our troops are just following orders from intelligence officials. Billions have been drained out of this war and still we cannot finish surveillance of two countries. Where the hell is Technology and REAL intention to fight against terrorism.
I think is capital not capitol.
How come the crazy people with wacko theories can never spell correctly? Kind of gives you a glimpse at the caliber of education they have.
What i've come to understand on a very spiritual level is that the Taliban, Al-Quaeda, Hizbollah, Hamas etc...are all islamic civilian groups of men women and children responding to their god given mandatory call to jihad when the opportunity arises and are all one of the same unholy Qur'ap hellbent on destroying life and civilization in their hope to attain eternal bliss in a carnal bordello they call paradise. I don't trust any islamic...
Unfortunately being born can sometimes be a tragedy; we can not choose where we are born. I remember when I was in IQ in 04, women began wearing jeans and nail polish because they felt safe doing so since U.S. and allied forces were there. As the war rolled along and control began being lost, women began going back to the old ways to avoid beatings and death. In 05, during their first elections, they showed courage going to the polls to vote, knowing they could be killed before they were able to do so. It is unfortunate that freedom comes at such a cost.
REMEMBER "EXODUS" WE WE'RE IN AFGHANISTAN WAY BEFORE 9/11. HELPING BIN LADEN AND THE TALIBAN OUST THE RUSSIANS. WHO WERE THIER FOR THE SAME REASON WE ARE NOW OIL AND POPPY.
Call me crazy but I think there is more to the story than just NATO forces blindly murdering innocent civilians. I'd like to hear the soldiers account before I jump to any conclusions. ... I know, it's silly right?
IM GLAD IM NOT AN IRAQY OR FROM AFGANISTAN.
WHAT COUNTRY IN THE WORLD WOULD LIKE TO BE INVADED AND TREATED AS SECOND CLASS IN THEIR OWN COUNTRY.
POOR SUCKERS.
SOME DAY THEY WILL WAKE UP AND KICK THE AMERICANS AND BRITS FROM THEIR COUNTRY
Wow that's a shame. Why are we in Afghanistan again? Oh yeah! They're leadership wouldn't give up one of those responsible for attacking our country and we weep for them? Well cry me a river... It's war. People die.
We're there to control the TAP (Trans-Afghanistan Pipleline). Our involvement in the Middle East has always been about natural resources and Israel.
If you believe all that flag-waving nonsense, I have a bridge to sell you.
Ooooppps.
COME ON REALLY? WE'RE DOING THIS AGAIN? O.K. LET ME REITERATE. BOTH SIDES ARE BAD. BOTH SIDES MURDER. BOTH SIDES IN IT FOR THE MONEY.(OURS MORE THAN THIERS). LEST WE FORGET AFGHANISTAN HAS BESIDES THE PIPELINE, THE POPPY AS A NATRUAL RESOURCE AND SINCE THE EARLY 90'S HAVE BEEN PRODUCING 75% OF THE WORLDS OPIUM. 75% THATS SOMETHING TO FIGHT FOR YOU THINK? NOW CALL ME CRAZY BUT HASN'T AMERICA BEEN CAUGHT RED HANDED SELLING COCAINE TO AMERICAN CITIZENS WHILE AT THE SAME TIME SUPPROTING THE WAR ON DRUGS? OLIVER NORTH. RONALD REAGAN. GEORGE BUSH SR. ALL DRUG DEAlERS. IRAN CONTRA IS HISTORICAL FACT. NO WAY TO DENY IT. 75% IS ALOT. WE NEED THAT. SO WE WENT AND GOT IT. AND THE TALIBAN ARE FIGHTING TO KEEP IT. NO GOOD GUYS. ALL BAD GUYS. SORRY TO THE MEN AND WOMEN THAT DEFEND OUR COUNTRY. YOUR SUPERIORS ARE DECIEVING YOU INTO SUPPORTING THIER CARTEL UNWITTINGLY. YOU ARE HIRED MUSCLE. IRAN CONTRA. GEORGE BUSH SR. SOLD COCAINE TO AMERICAN CITIZENS. THEY NO EXACTLY WHERE BIN LADEN IS HIDING. NO WHERE IN AFGHANISTAN. PAKISTAN. OUR ALLY. SOLDIERS DO NOTHING. 9/11. FIND THE ENEMY. IT'S BEEN 9 YEARS. F-I-N-D T-H-E E-N-E-M-Y.
WHY IS HEROIN USE BEEN ON A RISE SINCE 9/11? IT'S BEEN 9 Y-E-A-R-S. AMERICAN SOLDIERS KILLING AND DYING FOR HEROIN AND OIL. THIS IS EXACTLY WHAT OUR FOUNDING FATHERS HAD IN MIND.
We don't know for sure how many civilians were killed by NATO forces but whatever the military says, there were more than that. We don't know how many barrels of oil are leaking offshore but whatever BP says; we know there is much more than that. We don't know what the unemployment rate is but whatever the government says, the rate is higher than that. We don't know how much of a role Wall Street's greed played in the economic crash- but even Oliver Stone in his most manic phase probably underestimates that. We don't know how many innocent people are in jail or indeed how many have been executed, but it is probably way more than the pundits have said.
Get the message; don't believe anything you hear or read until the truth comes out 3-4 years after the fact. Live your life as a skeptic and cast your vote accordingly. Democracy is in trouble because you just can't believe anything anymore.
Last and most importantly. Do you really believe that the deficit and national debt is really only what the government says it is?
There is no such thing as an afghan civilian. The afghan that was shot and killed buring IEDs where my son was blown up was a 14 "civilian" as claimed by the village – even though killed while burying an IED – may the little terrorist rest in h*ll. His village chopped the head off a little 15 year old "civilian" daughter of theirs for daring to ask some Marines if she could go back to the states to get out of the area.
pyrate, you're half-right. the taliban refused to give us the people responsible for 911. then they challenged us. it may be the way the do their business, however, when they killed women and children for learning or playing music, plus the desecration of other religious sites-something has to be done. how would you feel if the US government was to bomb every mosque in the US, because we don't like their religion? well, that's exacly what the taliban did to non-muslims there. I never hear people complaining about that, do you?
Why don't these same people protest when the Taliban execute civilians?
Maybe we should arrest Nasrutullah Arsala for spreading lies in an effort to undermine security.
hack, I guess bush was a great actor. and the people killed at the pentagon are extras. and the people that crashed the plane before it could hit another building where made up. people like you are my biggest fear. you probably think we never sent a man to the moon either right? you think tha army has black helicopters that don't make a sound too right?
you believe in aliens and area 51 is holding them right? if you answered yes, to any of these questions...then I won't waste my breath with you. you're an intelligent idiot. yeah, one of those college educated people that can be lead by anny cult or organization to believe anything they want. may be a scientologist? oh well, watch out for the miniature robotic insects in your house–send there by uncle sam. they are recording everything you do....
When you participate in the war by harboring terrorists or allowing your neighbors to harbor terrorists you are no longer innocent civilians. Sorry...
And the children killed by US troops? What are they? Acceptable collateral damage?
If they were your kids what would your reaction be?
No, that is called a horrible parents. The Afghan people need to step up and do what is right to straighten their damn country out. This is the year 2010. They want the outsiders gone and they want business as usual. Yeah well thats not going to happen. They need to grow up as a nation and join the ranks of the civilized world.
Their lack of unity and global responsibility allowed the Taliban to come to power. The Taliban then allowed Al Qaeda a place to grow into the global network it is today. Killing civilians is bad, but this is the price that must be paid to clean up a mess that they allowed to happen.
Most do not get it outside the region. The Taliban are civilians fighting an insurgent battle against outside invaders. Al-Quida is not the Taliban. They are fighting against us together because we the infidals are a common enemy.
Once the USA leaves, the Civilian Taliban will reform their government. The Taliban rule is not the way most of the West lives, however, it is their way. The Taliban did not attack on 911, it was Al Quida. In Afganistan, the civilians are the Taliban and the Talban are the civilians. It is just that way.
Our own nation has a rich history of cilvilian soliders.
insurgents and Taliban hiding with civilians. they are being hid by civilians
how do u know when to pull the trigger in that case?.....why must the media bash us so badly let them pick up a gun and go fight... lets see how they do
You folks minds have been fried by the msm. You are ALL uninformed. We are on the side of the bad guys. This is the plan. The elites are putting the U.S. in the role the nazis played in the last act, ww2, We are run by men only loyal to the filthy rich and flithy arrogant and filthy greedy. I would love to debate ex aipac leader wolf blitzer on issues of the world but he only interviews staged pentagon psyop folks to fool us. Or try anyway. The media is as guilty as the Rothschild greed cabal in that they put on this play everyday 24/7 to guide the goyim slowly into the cattle trucks for culling of the heard like in the past. The msm needs to be held accountable just like we will hold the tc, cfr, and all the other players in this low budget horror film we are living. When the msm runs blocker for the 911 players and for obamas qualifications to be president, and the vaccine frauds, past and next years, it shocks me to see just how far they will push the worlds people. THen murder us just for having the sense to see what is really going on. Have a nice day.
You said before 9-11, we fought Iraqis when they invaded Kuwait in 1991 and they killed Americans. You may not have been born yet; you can read about it on wikipedia.
Oh well...it's a war. you cannot fight in a war and not expect civilian casualties. That's what a war is. All of this people talking garbage about our soldiers are nothing but idiots who think a war can be huminized? war is hell. any attempt to painted otherwise is idiotic.
people are going to die and those will include terrorist, soldiers and civilians. stop complaining and living in a fantasy world. war is what it is.
No kidding that it's war and people will die. The question is - is this a just and necessary war?
And if your parents or children were among the civilians killed, you would change your "war is war" apathetic drivel in a hurry.
@Sean:
Then you are living in dream world and no stats. The answer = 0. Not a single american was ever killed by any Iraqi across the globe. It was a BIG LIE regarding WMDs, just to enter into this country.
Hack,
The History Channel did an episode following the release of that video. You should watch the History channels investigation into 9-11 and the conspiracy theories surrounding it as well.
well..i guess the american army z tryn to do their best but i dnt knw wy they r not tackling down the real criminals instead they are just wasting their time going around the villages and house to house killing civilians and poor ppl....they should stop the real criminals and murders inside the Gov many members are the murders of thousands but no one is telln them anything they just act blind....even if they pass some smuglers im sure they smile and say hi to them...this is not war.....i guess they are just wasting their time and also playing with peoples life's.....and UN is sleeping ...no one is holding mr.Karzai and his office....many criminals are working with karzai and these are the Bussiness man because of which the war in the country is not stoping every one is tryn to earn more money.!
Before 911 just over a hundred by Iraq, first gulf war. By Al Qaeda who were trained in Afghanistan, 17 on the USS Cole, 6 in the 1993 World Trade Center bombing, etc. etc. to many attacks to list.
killing civilians is all the rage these days just look at Iran and Thailand. I agree the Afhgan and Iraqi civilian deaths are false they are insurgents and Taliban hiding behind civilians or better yet being hid by civilians and then they want to call it murder the next day. Its part of their strategy to get us out of there.
How many americans were killed by an Iraqi and Afg before 911?
The answer is,Zero!
I believe our Nato Forces over any uneducated islamic old man besides, there's no telling who's who amongst the Afgans cos the Talibanis are nothing more than your typical civilians by day morphing into Talibanis by night. What I keep in mind always, is what the religion these people embrace teaches them about non-muslims as being the arch enemies of islam who must be killed at any cost –a direct order from their god-prophet.
The troops out their have to do what they need to to protect themseves. We need to keep in mind that they are fighting a civilian terrorist group.
It is possible that the so called "civilains" take shots at the troops then throw away the gun, thus becoming an un armed civilian.
This is a lose lose situitaion. What do you do if you are in a firefight and the person on the other side whom you have been taking fire from decides to toss the weapon and fall back into civialian ranks. If you shot them you shot a civilian and if you dont they can easly grab that gun and shot you.
My best to the troops.
Why? This is the internet, I could make up anything I choose, so giving you a list of what my experience is would be pointless. If it would not be pointless, then explain why.
Smith in Oregon: The acronym you used is wrong it is FUBAR not foobar. FUBAR however describes your post perfectly.
Sean, if you have been to Afghanistan, then you certainly are a more informed source then myself. But it would be helpful if you told us your actual experience that formed your opinion, so that we could respect your information above an un-named or anonymous source.
Iranian president claimed that they captured a terrorist without killing even an animal.
Troops are fueling the War in Afghanistan by killing civilians.
When a civilian is killed in a village, simply wait hundreds of villagers supporting the Taliban.
We have to change fighting tactics.
Regards for all Americans helped us during the Cold War and supporting us now in rebuilding our country.
Akbar
Do you know how to tell the difference between a civilian and aTaliban? The Taliban hope you can't tell either so what they do is pick up the rifle and the Taliban becomes a civilian casualty and the medai hayday begins.
Smith,
None of what you said will happen. Have you been to Afghanistan? The Afghanistan people are not the maniacs CNN makes them out to be and they are not about to revolt. Revolting is what they did when the U.S.S.R. invaded them. CNN takes a couple of opinions from a few people and make it sound as if it is what the majority feels, it is called journalism. Haven't you ever noticed that CNN uses phrases like "an unnamed source" or "anonymous source".
Sean, perhaps it is your research that is a bit outdated. We ran the Taliban out several years ago, and they have returned under our watch. Al Qaeda bases were originally attacked in Afghanistan at the very beginning of this war because they took credit for the 9-11 attack on our soil. But then the Al Quaeda "head quarters" moved to Pakistan, or at least the undefined mountains between the two countries. So Sean, please provide substantiate your statement that "Afghanistan is Al Qaeda's main base of operations " rather than the place they go in and out of to attack American and UN troops. During your research, also please explain why opium only returned to the economy after we began to "save" the Afghans from themselves?
Pat please do some research on the opium statement you just made! nearly ALL the heroin imported to this country comes from Afghanistan. I think you know that Heroin has been in the USA for some time before the Afghan war began. Also, research the Russian war with Afghanistan and try to discover the Afghans source of income. I will save you the time, it was OPIUM!!! Opium has been the staple crop of Afghanistan form decades!
War is hell...
@ Sean. It's not all about natural resources but rather the ability of the United States to have another military base, we now have about 700 throughout the world, so we can control and or influence other countries.
Yet another BOTCHED midnight raid resulting in yet another row of civilians machine gunned to death in front of their wives and children.
This latest foobar however appears to be EXTREMELY costly. With war waging thru Afghanistan for 30 years it is not uncommon nor entirely unexpected during a 'midnight raid' that neighboring civilians hearing machine gun fire are going to grab their weapons and see if thieves, raiders, Taliban or a gang of cut-throats has descended upon their village. In nearly every case however, US and NATO troops have murdered them sometimes while they stood in their doorways looking out to see what was happening.
While this has sadly gone one for many months and many excuses and apologies have been issued by Gen. McChrystal, this latest botched 'midnight raid' appears to have greatly inflamed an entire region and the civilians in that district are now threatening to burn the entire district along with all of the cities in that region to the ground. The Afghan civilian survivors of the botched midnight raid are loudly stating they do not care if the American troops kill them. The civil unrest is spreading and using machine guns as crowd control as seen currently in Thailand is the very worse solution possible.
If angry Afghan civilian mobs begin a large civil unrest, protest and begin burning their villages and cities in protest, all hope of any further success is entirely doomed. All progress is going to stop and US and NATO troops will either machine gun the civilian protesters much like those in Thailand and Tibet or they'll simply be forced to watch as the Afghan people totally revolt to what they seen as a utterly corrupt Karzai CLAN governing their country.
@ Dave...you are exactly right. I thought we declared war on countries. Has anyone ever seen a Taliban, Hamas or Al Qaeda warship, air bomber or tank?
yes on 9/11 you dope.
O.K. for those of you who can not research anything on their own. Yes, the 9-11 hijackers were Saudi, they left their country of Saudi to train in Afghanistan. and became Al Qaeda members. For those of you that say we should attack Saudi because the hijackers were from Saudi are simply stupid. Al Qaeda in Afghanistan has U.S., British, Jordanian and numerous other people of ethnic origins in it's ranks. It has people from non-Muslim and non-Arab families in its ranks. Afghanistan is Al Qaeda's main base of operations and that is why U.N. and NATO forces are there and not in Saudi. As far as Afghanistan having natural resources, well, I guess if you consider opium a natural recourse, then they have plenty. Other than opium, they have no natural resources.
Afghanistan is crucial because the TAP (Trans-Afghanistan Pipeline) must be laid through it so that Western markets can have access to natural gas from Central Asia. The project began well before 9/11 but the Taliban were calling the shots back then.
The oil and gas folks definitely need access to this critical territory. Troops and civilians are expendable, as long as this objective is met.
Not even our Bible can tell us who it is okay to kill and who it isn't. Moses brought a tablet down that said "Thou shalt not Kill" and the same God then approved the death of every non Jew in the promised land. So in Afghanistan are we protecting ourselves, because it seems that very few terriorists are actually Afghan, or our we under Gods command to take a promise land for ourselves? Are we protecting the Afghan people, in exactly what way? From themselves, because that is pretty presumptuous. Would someone, obviously much smarter than I, define exactly what a "victory" in Afghanistan whould look like. Or anywhere else in that part of the world? If you can, could you also explain why all of our "friends" in the middle east, are actually the homelands of the folks that are really trying to hurt Americans? And we don't kill many civilians there, do we? I do support our troops, but maybe not so much the military "brains" that put them in a kill or be killed situation. Soldiers follow orders, and I respect that, but how about looking way over their heads to see who actually can benefit from this war. Certainly not our brave troops!
I concur with the posters that say that there will be no protest if the Taliban set off a suicide bomb in a school and killed 25 kids....@Sam-unfortunately the scientific method will only work if the evidence isn't tampered with or destroyed. @Rodger-seems to me that there were millions of people saying that the killings were tragic after 9/11, which was instigated by a terrorist group that trained and was based in Afghanistan. @John-unfortunately the media only reports what is given to them. These reports no doubt originated from the Taliban and were passed along to the provinicial council....or maybe the Taliban IS the provinicial council. @ Proletariat-time to go back into your foil covered house and hide from the black helicopters.....
Hmm last I checked Al Queda is a civilian organization. I know of no country called by that name
Mega kudos to Col Gregory T. Breazile, USMC!!! You and those you work with are the best and have already won, although it will take time to play out in time and space.
Thank you for your service to our great country and to the larger world as well.
Semper Fi, indeed!
Scott
Rodger, the day our military starts doing battle in civilian clothes while hiding amongst our own innocent citizens then, yes.... those deaths would be "tragic" ... do you even know what you're talking about? Or are you just trying to take a stab at an honorable military officer?
Of course we killed civilians. There is no news in this. We justify the murder in various ways. Bottom line, we are okay with killing which of course fully legitimatizes the other sides murders. Can't have it both ways. Murder is okay or not.
All comments are seems to be from intelligent readers. For those who are making connection between 9/11 and Afghanistan invasion, can they tell me who many of 9/11 attacker were Afghan? Majority of them were Saudi, which is our "friend country". Last month Dick Chiney was in Riyadh to meet Saudi King – personal bussiness – oil.
That's really asking a lot from these folks. Dick Cheney must really get a kick from "useful idiots" like the ones here insisting that this has nothing to do with oil.
By the way, the term "useful idiots" originated with Lenin. It perfectly describes the naive flag wavers on here.
@Proletariat what have you done for your country? I suspect nothing, I suggest you leave it and find one you like better. If the answer is that you can't find one that is better, you better re-think your rhetoric and determine what you can do to make it even better. I wonder if you need gas in your car, lawnmower, taxi, generator, etc. Oil is the natural resource we "the country" and YOU need. So what do you suggest? Hand it over to the terrorists who gather around it? Not use anymore? Well neither seem like a logical or viable option. Interested in finding out what your solution to the challenge is instead of complaining.
At least you're admitting that oil is the major motivator here. I'm surprised that someone with the screen name "Soldier" hasn't yet used the line "the troops are fighting for our freedom...waaah waaah."
But by your logic, it's ok to invade a country to plunder its resources if we really really want them.
My buddy's patrol was ambushed by Taliban who were hiding in a building. My buddy's unit was pinned down and called in an airstrike. When they were conducting their battle damage assessment they discovered that the Taliban forces had kidnapped local civilians and tied them up in the building. Then when they heard the choppers coming they ran, leaving the civilians behind to get killed.
Before my buddy's unit was even done digging through the rubble, local Afghan officials were on scene with a camera crew to show that American troops had killed civilians.
The Taliban are cowards who hide behind women and children, and pour acid on little girls' faces for trying to learn to read. Let's not forget who we are dealing with here.
thank you from a former Marine
Above a U.S. colonel says "all killings are tragic". I wonder if the good officer would use such calm language if Afghans were killing Americans in the U.S. Would that be "tragic," colonel?
Where is the outrage from these so called local leaders when the Taliban kill civilians? I doubt that there were civilians killiked by coalition forces, but rather a Taliban or Taliban supporter makeing false claims again The meida dupes then make reports like this to spread the word for the Taliban! Verify, then report. If there is no verification, then just keep quite. This crap just supports the enemy.
Wow, Proletariat. You are extremely intelligent. Or not. In case you don't remember, I'll give you a reminder. The global war on terrorism began in Afghanistan. Can't remember why? It was because the Taliban was helping al Queda hide there. Osama bin Laden was (and unfortunatley probably still is) in Afghanistan. Iraq is not where this war belongs. In case you didn't know either, the U.S. is funding the rebuilding of Iraq and not requiring the Iraqi government to provide us any of the revenues they earn from oil. Really, you need to get your facts straigt before you post something so utterly outrageous. Contrary to what many believe, the U.S. is not about taking over the world. We help other countries way too often for that to be the case.
"The U.S. is funding the rebuilding of Iraq and not requiring the Iraqi government to provide us any of the revenues they earn from oil." Are you in kindergarten??? Our presence in Iraq will not provide US (as in you or me or other lowly folks) with anything, but it sure will benefit Exxon-Mobil and Chevron and Halliburton. Do you actually think Cheney had noble motives when he helped engineer this war?
Exxon recorded a $10-billion dollar profit in just one quarter while everyone else was suffering from the recession. Were you not aware of that? Can you not connect the dots here? This what happens when people who only read People magazine decide to comment on world affairs.
And the billions of dollars a year Exxon made before the war didnt have anything to do with the worlds need for oil? I bet cheney made everyone buy SUVs and make plastic bottles using petroleum right?
The important thing is who do the locals blame? Posted by: Bob Ramos @@@@@ The side that controls the "narrative" will win.
I am a SDV and my brothers and sons are vets. We have nothing but respect for men like Col Gregory T. Breazile, USMC. However the good Col fails to understand that it is not necessary that we are guilty or not of these incidents. The important thing is who do the locals blame? Since we have been responsible for so many such incidents (our own people admit that), we are blamed. As long as there are operations conducted againist the Taliban, there will be collateral damage like this.
i agree ray! i am a marine too. semper fi brothers. your on your way home now...
How about CNN also reporting that 5 US Marines were killed this week in the same country?
We can kill our way out.
Troops killing civilians & this is news? What a laugh. Once a country decides to invade another country, thats what you are going to do is kill mainly innocent people for what? For oil, natural resources, routes, land & pipelines. Besides!
Ok first of all Afghanistan has nothing to do with the so called war on terror as much as Iraq. Besides Terrorism is an International dilemma so you would have to invade the whole world for that. What a coincidence that terrorists always seem to be where all the natural resources are located like oil, gas & the routes for these resources. The only reason why the US government is in Afghanistan is for the interest of their bosses in the natural resources businesses & the military industrial complex. Google “TAPI Pipeline” or “TAP Pipeline”. It will reveal it all. The pipeline that will export gas from Turkmenistan thru Afghanistan, Pakistan & India. Who ever controls or constructs this pipeline will be powerful. American soldiers are dying for rich bosses & their investors. The bosses in the oil & war business. How sad
Gee Tim, did US involvement in the Middle East only begin after 9/11? No, we've had a military presence there for half a century or more. And why do you think that was? I'll give you two reasons - oil and Israel.
Did you really think this all began on 9/11/2001? Were you too busy watching Nascar before that date?
i agree with you. not a very educated person lol.
And the US military hasnt been in every other region in the world for all those years?
Here is the real problem is that you people that are not over there don't understand that these warriors are out there with people shooting at them. Civilians are causlities of war and not like the World Trade Centers where there were no warriors just innocent people doing their daily work. We are over there in a war that we don't want but may be a neceassity to keep them away from our land. There is an old saying " It is better to take the fight to the enemy than to have the enemy come to you". Lets support the troops and Keep the focus on who to yell at which is the Back jumping cowards and their friends in Washington. O
Just to add to my last comment, I bet you won't hear anyone complaining that Afghan police shot and killed two protesters or calling for an investigation of THAT. Apparently, in the eyes of the (non-US) world, only American soldiers ever murder civilians.
ITs not the troops fault, I find no blame with them. The cowards that are the Taliban and Al-Queda and militiants constantly hide behind woman and children. Laying in mosques and hiding in civilian homes. Firing on the troops from behind hospital walls, schools and anything that will get the most news the next day. The civilians of Afghanistan have to stand up to these thugs and show them that they are not afraid and that they will protect their families from cowards like them. They have no shame, they only want control and use "god" as an excuse to get it. They want to supress woman and girls so they cannot learn and be better for themslevs and their families. They are nothing but hoodlums and thugs and most of all cowards, the Taliban, Al-Queda and the militants are nothing more than a gang of drug dealing murders that even if "god" existed would be shamed by them.
AMEN !
As long as the Talliban/insurgents/enemy wear civilian clothes and hide among the civilians (who often help hide them) any casualties can be claimed as civilian. Better we should take off uniforms, put on low slung jeans with the boxers hanging out, go after them without constrainst, and claim it all as drug wars. We'd get better media support.
buy them the military equipment to fight conventionally with, bullet proof vests, armor, jets, night vision, satellites, optics, sam's, oh and some boots instead of slippers as well.
Since when did the scientific method go out of fashion? If there's no verifiable evidence it happened, then it never happened. I hope this Afghan leader will provide proof to back up his claim. Likewise for NATO.
First, I feel sorry for the civilians involved. However, when the Taliban fighters look like civilians, act like civilians, hide among the civilian population, innocents will get hurt. If the innocent civilians want this to stop, they need to point out who the Taliban fighters are, and take their chances that UN, NATO, or US forces will protect them. I side with the military personnel on this one.
So what you are saying, if I understand you correctly, is that it is the civilians' fault. How convienient.
I understood quite well what he meant. If you can't comprehend that when you receive fire from a hostile position and return fire to that position, you can't pick and choose who gets hit. This is and has always been impossible to eliminate all civilian casualties in war. Civilians can be innocent bystanders or they can be sympathizers, sad situation either way for American troops fighting a very difficult war. If you have a better plan to save these lives I'm sure the commanders on the ground would love to hear it.
Tad Pole, If you are so smart I invite you to join one of our Nations Armed Services and go make a difference. You need to remember that these young men and women are out there for you to keep the very right to run your mouth.
War is a terrible thing. Freedom is precious. American men and women are dying to bring freedom to the Afghan people and it is wrong to expect this freedom to come without loss of blood to the Afghans as well. How many civilians died from friendly fire in our own struggle for freedom? Was it worth it?
Why do old soldiers alway use that stupid line about defending free speech. I know marines arent too bright, but no Afghani has ever came to the US and tried to tell me what I can or can not say. Retired marines seem to try that crap all the time though.
Yes, it's quite convenient to blame the civilians. I wonder if the people posting messages here would call it "acceptable collateral damage" if it were their family members who were killed.
And spare me the tired "the American troops are fighting for our freedom" BS. Anyone with half a brain knows our policies in the Middle East have nothing to do with our freedom. If you're really so gullible to believe our freedom is at stake, I have a bridge to sell you.
Oh here we go again with the "serve in the military or shut up" response. Who is to say that Tad Pole hasn't served? And there are plenty of ways (outside of military or political realms) to serve our country. Not being in the military doesn't make one un-American.
Oh and fighting for freedom for Afghan people? I thought we were there fighting terrorism.
The average non-political Afghan is probably just trying to keep their head low and not engage either side of the conflict. To expect them to "take their chances that UN, NATO, or US forces will protect them" is asking a lot of citizens who did not invite us there in the first place.
You dont really think that the Afghans think the US will stay, do you?
How mamy times has the US Government gone in there and promised the world to these people, and then left them to rot after we achieved our short term goals.
The war on Drugs in the Vietnamera, then against the Russians. What will happen (After the US leaves again) to the people who point out the Taliban?
Another sad day in Afghanistan! When will it end? This is clearly a no-win situation where the US and it's NATO allies have no chance of changing Afghanistan to their ideals. The choice is clear, get out as quickly as possible as this adventure is extremely cost in term of money and manpower. You simply cannot enforce change on people who live in the 6th century and do not share your way of life. What as waste of resources.
This carnage just goes on and on and who knows who to believe?If NATO did kill these people,they'll only whitewash it anyway.But do the fat-headed politicians in Washington really care?I suppose not.
cnn is gliching again. to post or not to post that is cnn's way. lets block certain post and let other through
All casualities are tragic and we hope to encourage those supporing the Taliban to put down their arms and support their government. GEN McChrystal is serious when he says we can't kill our way out of Afghanistan. We hope to bring peace through the strenghth of the Afghan Security Forces. See how we are building thier forces at http://www.ntm-a.com
Semper Fi,
Greg
http://www.bloomberg.com/apps/news?pid=20601087&sid=aDxF1YfeViEc Greece investigates U.S. Banks!!!!
It's not the first time a person blames us for killing innocent civilians. Sometimes these so called innocent civilians were paid gunmen for the Taliban, that makes them legal targets. You hear the outrage of civilians being killed and we do sympathise with the people when that happens and take full responsibility, but why is it when the Taliban purposely target civilians and kills them in mass do you not hear the cries for justice from the local populace?
I been there sir, may you all come home safe.....
Last I heard taking responsibility for killing innocent civilians doesn't bring them back to life! OOPS!!!! We're sorry! No, seriously.
Still more civilian Afghan deaths are part of the US/NATO campaign designed to win the hearts and minds of the families of those civilians we are killing. Add to those deaths those of the invading forces, including our own. Afghanistan is a country best left to determine its own destiny without outside interference, just as the US wants to determine the same for itself. Most polls continue to show that Afghans want the invaders to depart, so the US/NATO strategy appears to be designed to have Afghans change their minds. Perhaps as in Iraq, bribing tribal leaders and warlords may help to achieve this, but things will revert to normal if/when the bribes, funded by American taxpayers, stop.