Irshad Manji, Ayaan Hirsi Ali discuss America's struggle in Afghanistan following riots over a Quran burning in Florida.
How did the Afghans feel about Hamid Karzai
Karzai is a fake and illegitimate president, who occupied the power through fraud and cheating in last presidential elections, he is the person who spoiled with corruption ,drugs opium trade, land occupying and many other crime, like having of secret connections with Taliban ISI and Aqaani group. In one word we can say he is the big traitor of the country, we can say he is incapable person to run the country, and it was the big mistake of the international forces that at the beginning they designated Karzai as president of the country, since that Time just he has wasted all resources to, how he to keep himself on power and how to bring back Taliban and their supporters on power,
US military has full control of Afghanistan and Karzai. They controlled the elections won by Karzai where Talibans did NOT vote, and than ASKED Karzai to have peace talk with Taliban. The only problem betwen Karzai and Petreus arised when the president protested against the unacceptable amount civilian killing inside NON TALIBAN people. This is the proof that US are not ther to fight the Taliban, but to control the country and that afghans like Pamiri are traitors paid by the americans.
I was told that been not an afghan I should not talk about Afghanistan war, but why those women are talking about Afghanistan and Karzai ? Afghan leadership is a problem of Afghan people. Only when the foreigners will be out of the country we could see the reality as Karzai is an hostage of US military now. US military asked him to have peace talks with the Taliban. The true problem betwen Karzai and Petreus was only about civilian casualties.
Thank you. that's what i am talking about!!!!! Great point !!!
If you are not an Afghan, than why on earth everyone is talking about Afghanistan and Afghan president ?
Why these 2 stupid b!tch3s talking about our President ? and why is she saying Karzai should be removed from the power ? who the hell are they to remove our president ? Our President, our vote, our people and we will decide who should be there.
These 2 b!tch3s are really crazy, indeed they are US b!tch3s😉 that's why they are talking bullsh!t!!!!!!
Afghan President is there and will always stay there and will never listen to n!gg@r Obama!!! AND YOU STUPID AMERICANS HAVE NO RIGHT TO TALK ABOUT AFGHAN PEOPLE AND AFGHAN PRESIDENTS.
USA/NATO = YOU ARE A GUEST IN AFGHANISTAN AND STAY LIKE A GUEST, DON'T TRY TO ACT LIKE OWNER!!! GOT IT !!! BACK OFF !!!!!!
Riza – I agree, and noticed your previous post was deleted. Probably these women were instruited to speak that way, especially when she said "I think Karzai should be removed, we should not negotiate with Karzai".
Not just the united states, but also Afghans are very pored and shame on Karzai and his functions in the country, he is a good dealer of Pakistan and Iran and Russia , and not the man who run the country and it has been proved since ten years of his useless functions
Karzai is an irresponsible and incapable man to run the country, he is corrupted with his allies and people do not want him and never accept him as leader of country, he just works for Pakistan ISI Taliban and their supporters. Since ten years that the international forces have been helping us, most of resources have lost and wasted by Karzai to pave the way for Taliban to return them on power, though majority of people in the country is against the Karzai and his ideas, but they concern about the international forces that why they have been misleading by Karzai in one and another ways.
Karzai was put in place by the US and later he won the election without the partecipation of the Taliban, as they did not vote.
I only caught the tail end of the show. Two points on which I agreed with both guests:
1)Karzai should have made public statements to his own people to disassociate the US govt/NATO (who apologized) from the nutcase in Florida who sought to offend;
2)the US presence in Afghanistan lacks a clearly expressed, achievable mission and that the American presence will, as a result, be open-ended, and expensive, and will result in loss of life without any benefit ( other than, by implication, to those receiving money from the US).
Leibovitz – It is not a mystery that Obama condamned the Quran burning as well as he apologized for the afghan civilian killed, but US are not credible in both the cases, this is why the afghans became violent.
Nuke'm all and sort it out later...
Listening to CNN's roundtable shows very much how Americans are misinformed re: Afghanistan. First, Eliot Spitzer states 'Romans' were mired down in Afghanistan. Eliot does not know his history. The Romans feared the Afghans because of their fiercely independent nature and wisely refused to venture into those hinterlands. So the Romans were never mired down in Afghanistan. Second, it sounds as if Ms. Ali is not very bright but she is good at slandering Karzai. Lastly, is it really a surprise that Afghans from all levels of society, including those representing the govt., despise anything non-Afghan. Believe me when I state that the US dollar is the only thing the Afghans like from the 'kafirs.'
the protests are against the US presence, and the failed war. Afghans will not stop. No Afghan will tolerate the random killings of innocent civilians. Quran burning? Are you kidding me? CNN, you are pathetic.
You think Afghans are ok with night raids and airstrikes??? You think they are not mad about this???
Spinning the story does us no good. We have lost. China is the new superpower.
Keep lying, your only hurting yourself hahaa
Ashraf – You are totally right. They are manipulating the truth as usual.
The death of any non combatant is a tragedy and each non combatant death is equal to any other regardless of the cause. A UN report states that the Taliban is responsible for three quarters of the non combatant deaths. If this is indeed correct the Taliban is responsible for three times the number of non combatant deaths attributed to ISAF. Worse still any deliberate targetting of non combatants is a war crime, regardless of who the culprits are.
GabriMaria Rigotti – No, the data you provided comes from UN, wich is part in the war, and not credible for that reason.
Additionally, ALL non combatant deaths are a consequence of US invasion, and ALL foreigners are intruders and must be killed, as they are collaborating with the intruders. The only war crimes comes from the US, as they are killing even children
from helicopters one by one without controlling if they are armed.
The UN represents the majority of the international community and whilst any reporting is always subject to possible error it is unlikely that the UN would be foolish enough to deliberately falsify reports. However, Wikileaks could be a useful independent source for verifying the proportions of non combatant deaths by the parties on the opposing side of the conflict. On the issue of war crimes, the Geneva Convention would be one of the prevailing standards for ascertaining whether or not the cause of a non combatant death is a war crime and applies equally to all sides of any conflict. There is no justification for any war crime.
Gabri – You are right, but the US reject any international trial for their actions, so they are above any law, as they judge themselves. All the other nations fear to be isolated and support the US leadership, even if their power is shrinking.
It's very revealing to see how you and Salerno prefer to fool yourselves and say the killings and rioting in Afghanistan provoked by the Quran burning were not done over the Quran burning. You prefer to believe CNN made the story up to give Islam a bad name. AS IF ISLAM NEEDS ANYBODY's HELP TO GET A BAD NAME.
LOL, the protests are against the US presence. Its more about that than the Quran burning. Karzai has nothing to do with this.
Blame the US and Obama for supporting the killing of Afghan civilians openly, and just issuing regrets. Well, the Afghans can also say "Oh we are sorry, but we are going to kick you all out."
As far as Afghans are concerned, every foreigner in Afghanistan is a criminal!!!
And the Afghans have every just right to defend their homeland US its slaves.
Let’s be thinking in a wisdom ways,
As human being we have the responsibilities to respect each other and to listen from each other, to go on the way which do not bother other people and nationals. However, as you all have knows and aware since very long time about Afghanistan, its problems remained unsolved why?
There are most of you may aware of when the Mujaheedin defeat the Russian forces and its puppet Najeebullah government in Afghanistan and they (Mujaheedin) got the power in 1992, the United Nations and international forces had ignored Afghanistan and stop there assistance to Mujaheedin regime, this time Pakistan through its some slave like Gulboddin Hekmatyar and other its agents had interfered in Afghanistan and committed many crimes in Afghanistan to took the power and to establish the Pakistani government in Afghanistan. In spite of many effort Pakistan failed and could not imposed its control in Afghanistan, but Pakistan had strong influence in the country through its some agents who were and who are on power now too.
As Pakistan got that Gulboddin Hekmatyar and its allies could not defeat the Mujaheedin government, which was strongly supported by great Massoud, who was the defense minister that time, who had fought and battled a lot for the people’s rights, and people have liked him for his services and sacrificing for the people of this country. As Pakistan disappointed to impose the Pakistani regime to Afghanistan by Gulboddeen Hekmatyar and that was unexpected outcome for Pakistan then Pakistan sent Taliban under the name of Islamic term (Taliban) and in a seductive way the Taliban put Islam forwarded in 1996. And under the name of Islam they killed many people and destroyed many houses and eliminated many gardens and trees of the people in north and central Afghanistan, just those strong people were standing as mountains of resistance against Taliban , Alqaeda Pakistan and their supporters, who were the real people of the country and son of the soil under the leading of great Massoud. Great Massoud decreased the power of Taliban and their allies near to zero by his wisdom tactics, regressions and transgressions in many places of the country, but in 2001 as Taliban and their allies understood that they could not take over the control of country with existing of great Massoud , who was against the terrorists and barbarism and although many times Pakistan wanted from Massoud to give part for Taliban in Afghan government, but due to great Massoud knew that he can not work under the influence of Pakistan and Taliban , which was not and which is not for the good of the people and the country, great Massoud denied Pakistan’s suggestion several times. Then Pakistan and its allies assassinated him by two Arabs who called themselves journalists in 2001.
After the event of 11 in united states and international forces attacked on Taliban and within two weeks by the support of Mujaheedin, Taliban disappeared from the country and Mujaheedin again got the power, but this time the big mistake of the international forces was that they chose Karzai has president of Afghanistan, although in free election in Bone among the participants of a meeting which had held for the Afghanistan the Parson by the name Dr, Abdul Star Seyrat was the winner, but the united states put Karzai instead of him. Karzai is very incapable man, just he knows how to reflect immediately in saying of useless speech and statements against all except Taliban Aqaeda and Pakistan and their supporters.
You all have understood this, since he has worked as president of the country his very serious priority function has been to bring back Taliban on power , at first step he announced that all Taliban forgave by him without any coordination with people, what people wanted and want. You know Taliban have killed many innocent people around the Afghanistan, they are the top criminals around the world, people want justice. Taliban do not have respect to humanity, except killing, drug smuggling, still Karzai and international forces want to do peace with them, in daily base they kill civilians.
If we have had one month strong action and measures against Taliban rather than following the unclear policy of Karzai , very time before we would defeat the Taliban and their allies completely. These all escalating of chaos and barbarism of Taliban is because of Karzai is misleading the country toward the stone age which is Taliban time.
Karzai is very irresponsible man, who has lost his minds and wisdom for his discriminations biases that he has against the other ethnic groups, Karzai does not want to remove and finished the Taliban completely, until Karzai is on power. all people knows him better and now it is the time that international forces come on this point with more and very effective attention from their own eyes, not looking the things in Afghanistan from the Pakistan and Karzais glasses, which does not figure out the reality in Afghanistan.
Pamiri..You may tell the truth. If it is the truth your country is in real danger . Going back to stone age is not easy feeling because the world has changed and many people have changed with the world despite of what each individual believe as worship in their hearts. So complicated situation. More protests means more violence in a country with war.
The training of Afghan forces also getting messed up with this kind of protests. I wonder what majority wants in Afghanistan. ? Taliban or Afghan official forces?.
Protest began after Karzai"s announcement.
what Pamiri was telling is true. Karzai is with Taiiban. I have not seen any of his speech here on CNN regarding with UN staff death. They were serving in his country.I have not seen any regret over the incident. Troops must leave this Man to be judged by his own people in Afghanistan.
salerno...you should not live in USA. you dont deserve to live there. Leave US alone and you go live in Afghanistan or Pakistan where your friends are.
I have the right to live in US and in many other european countries. I am forbidden to go to Afghanistan or Pakistan.
Karzai...is not for peace. He is responsible more than any one out side for the killings in his own country. Man is corrupted. Also that pastor whoever he is an idiot burning books rather than praying for peace on earth. faith can do miracles . God laughs at all the stupid things we mankind do.
If they kill each other it is not OUR problem.
SALERNO has NO clue.....a country sent to kill children and burn a book.. REALLY? Then let all the military go home to thier family and see where your Karzai and country is then......they will kill eachother.... Other countries are there because you needed us, but now too scared of the Taliban.... Have your leader let the other countries he asked to come and help go home then run his mouth!!!!!
Baliba – YOU have no clue. THEY do not need US. OUR stupid military is killing THEIR people. Call me traitor, butI am totally glad when OUR people die, as they are stupid and violent.
TRAITOR and DESERTER
......... BUT FREE !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
ALIVE AND EVEN HAPPY !!!!!!!!!
The journalists and the other woman in the video are missing the point. The problem is that a country sent military to kill afghan children every day, and someone even burned their sacred book to blame and offend the victims. Afghans did very well to kill the intruders as they are not innocent.
No, Karzai is not to blame for the riots. The rioters themselves are to blame for their own behavior just like other people are responsible for their behavior. In this case, their behavior is inspired by Islam itself, and Karzai is just another Moslem leader dedicated to the doctrines of Islam.
Here is a sampling of the doctrines of Islam which motivate the hearts and minds of all religious Moslems including the rioters:
FROM THE KORAN:
–“ the (only) religion (acceptable) before God is Islam." (3:19)
- " If anyone desires a religion other than Islam, never will it be accepted of him." (3: 85)
- “You are the noblest community ever raised up for mankind.” (3:110)
- The unbelievers among the people of the book and the pagans shall burn forever in the fire of Hell. They are the vilest of all creatures. (98.6).
- Surely the vilest of animals in Allah’s sight are those who disbelieve. (8.55)
–The unbelievers are your inveterate enemy. (4:101)
- Mohammed is God's apostle. Those who follow him are ruthless to the unbelievers but merciful to one another. (48:29).
- It is unlawful for a believer to kill another believer, accidents excepted. (4:92)
- Believers, take neither the Jews nor the Christians for your friends. (5:51)
- Make war on them until idolatry shall cease and God's religion shall reign supreme. (8:40)
- Fight against them until idolatry is no more and God's religion reigns supreme. (2:193)
- The true believers fight for the cause of God, but the infidels fight for the devil. (4:76)
- We will put terror into the hearts of the unbelievers. (3:151)
But the Quran says “The Messenger’s duty is but to proclaim the Message.” (Quran 5:99) “Let there be no compulsion in religion. ” (Quran 2:256) “If it had been your Lord’s will, all of the people on Earth would have believed. Would you then compel the people so to have them believe?” Quran 10:99
Abdul, instead of picking and choosing from the Quran, there is a more objective way to go about this.
Yes, the Taliban and rioters are directly responsible, but the so-called Pastor Jones and Hamid Karzai have blood on their hands too for provoking this. Those idiots knew this was going to happen, they knew innocent lives would be lost. We cannot let them get away with this, they are puppet masters. The Afghan murderers are murderers, but they are also pawns; robots- you press the right button, and they commit violence. We have to charge the people who pressed the button as well as the robots.
Shep..well written Great Post
Shep; the verses from the Quran and the Hadith that promote violence against all that oppose or deny the truth of Islam are from Muhammad's Medina period. The nicer verses you gave are from the Mecca period. Ask Islamic theologians and most if not all will say that the latter period (the Medina period) should be given preference over the Mecca period.
The Quran instructs believers to submit and to submit disbelievers. If necessary; by force. That is the "peace" as it is understood in the religion of Islam. Submit to Islam or else... You apologists talking about "wrong ranslations", about not having the "correct" comment or interpretation, or who simply say that only Muslims can magically understand the Quran, are clutching at straws to defend a barbaric ideology.
Abdul – wrong translation. Without a comment ir is no possible to translate the Quran. Who is the subject, the underline personalòity of the last "we" ?
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